wade

He posted a .965 OPS in 2008, which pretty much matches his career OPS (.967). He may have "only" hit 35 home runs, but he also only played in 138 games. On top of that, he "only" hit 35 in 2006, then bounced back with 54 (and a career high in OPS) in 2007. I wouldn't expect him to display the same power numbers he put up in Arlington, considering how high his slugging percentage was in that ballpark. I don't know if it's fair to say that his numbers have really dropped off. Yep- just like Arlington helps, Yankee stadium is pretty famous for being hard on right handed-hitters, if I recall correctly.

I agree for the most part- but his gains wouldn't completely go away after stopping either, so we maybe could assume he's still benefitting every year since, though (again, I'm pretty much with you here) we're probably talking 5 homers a year? Maybe a few more? But yeah, the guy gets killed for not hitting .750 in playoffs, no doubt this is going to be a PR disaster for him. At least he 'came clean' today- I really think that'll take some of the heat off.

Yeah, now he comes clean. After he got caught. That's true, but it's more than most of them do.

Awesome. They sport the highest OBP as well (along with the BoSox)

Ha. It was the same in the NFL. Bill Curry was on Mike and Mike a couple of years ago, I guess when the heat was starting on Bonds, and he said he tried deca because so many guys on his team told him to. Bill played 40 years ago! He also said he put on 15 pounds of muscle in not time and his dad made him throw them away because it was freaking him out. In my opinion, most people that are shocked that most pro athletes are on stuff are either like the dude at Rick's that's shocked to find gambling in the back, or not very familiar with what many high level athletes will do to get better, or just enjoy the game and don't worry too much about what athletes do outside the game.

Rob, I don't know that Sammy, or anyone else who's not been implicated but may have used, had to be a rocket scientist to avoid detection. http://articles.latimes.com/2003/nov/14/sports/sp-steroids14 I found this article that talks about the 2003 'anonymous survey' when 5-7% of players tested positive. Now, of that 5-7%, consider this- "...players received several months’ warning before the tests began in spring training..." “'To get a 5% to 7% positive response rate, even though everyone knew the tests were coming, indicates the problem is far more widespread than baseball is ready to admit,' said Dick Pound, president of the World Anti-Doping Agency in Montreal." After the initial 'survey' in spring training of 2003, only 240 players were randomly tested for a second time that year. I don't know if it's ever been said that the 100-something positives the gov. has seized was from that or from the initial survey. Also, Bonds' 2003 sample was just re-tested and came back positive for a drug that 2003s test did not identify. I.E., he tested negative in 2003 even though he was on the gas. My point? That that many guys are caught when they know the test is coming- they're the stupid ones and you didn't have to be Einstein to test negative even if you were on. Even if you believed the survey would stay random (which it sure as hell should have- I'd be ticked), all you have to do is cycle off before spring training, or take something undetectable in the first place, or take a masking agent, etc. Anything to keep the number of positive tests down, and players maybe could have avoided mandatory testing in MLB at all.

Or the fact that Shawn Merriman (I'm not sure I spelled either right there, the Charger LB) tested positive for steroids and nobody really cared after his suspension was over. Yeah. I hate that crap. Our waiter last night overhead me and my father-in-law talking about A-Rod and the guy says 'yeah, that's why I don't like baseball'. I asked if he like NFL and he said yes, whereupon I pointed out what you just said. Guy says, and get this- says 'steroids don't help as much in football 'cause everybody's already strong'. WTF? I know people rationalize steroid use in football (they must, or else there'd be more of an outcry) but I never expected that rationale.

I'm with you all the way until the part about watching tape, etc. There are evolutions in every sport with equipment, etc. There's contact lenses, laser eye surgery, etc. For example, comparing Tiger and Byron Nelson is a little unfair to Byron since he used inferior clubs and balls, but that's too bad for the old dude. That said, it's not a good analogy for steroids. So, after nitpicking I'll suggest that the corked bat, scuffed baseball, is a better analogy- but those still aren't illegal outside of baseball.

Yes, but none work as well as testosterone, or synthetic testosterone, or pro-hormones (some of which were legal then, like andro). You can buy creatine all day and use it in any league, but it's not gonna give you the results steroids will. OK, that makes sense. Would it, however, make someone who is underweight and malnourished (like it has been claimed about Sosa) go from looking skinny to what he looks like in that picture above (assuming that's what he legitimately looks like) or would it not have that drastic of an effect? Creatine, or any other supplement, would have nowhere near the effect of nutrition- if that's what you're asking. I'm someone who has spent over a decade trying to put on weight and I can tell you that food intake is the number one thing, followed by lifting heavy weights. That said, taking steroids makes the whole process easier and faster and there's potential for so much more of a gain.

IMB, I get you for the most part. In fact, I don't get all 'throw 'em out of baseball' when someone's caught. If they have a rule in effect, and enforce it, then whatever. But, it's a slippery slope from supplements to hormone replacement. That's why the supps are legal-

I said this in the Sosa thread- big, big difference between creatine and steroids. Both in results and side effects, not to mention legality. That said, I think I get what you're saying - isn't laser eye surgery 'performence enhancing'?

Yes, but none work as well as testosterone, or synthetic testosterone, or pro-hormones (some of which were legal then, like andro). You can buy creatine all day and use it in any league, but it's not gonna give you the results steroids will.

I have, but I'm nobody.

Ha. In my mind he probably is, but that's just because I'm to the point where I think it's a very, very high percentage that have done it. Look at it this way, some of the greatest hitters of our generation now have positive tests (according to these leaks). There is no way that the very best are using while the vast majority are not. I.E., think of all the guys on the cusp, etc. that need all the edge they can get to try and get a contract. Don't know if I explained that very well. i wouldn't confine it to the hitters. people tend to suspect the power hitters because we see them getting bigger and hitting the ball farther, but there were a lot of pitchers on the mitchell report. throwing the ball faster and with more torque is just as important as hitting the ball farther. and people also tend to forget that this is not just a problem with a few good players using steroids to become great. there were a lot of marginal major leaguers who used steroids to become good enough just to stick in the big leagues for a few years. i don't remember people speculating about whether mike lansing, f.p. santangelo or paxton crawford used steroids, because they were smaller guys and not particularly noteworthy players. there's an instinct to want to throw out the statistics of guys like bonds and mcgwire because they were artificially enhancing their strength during that time, but don't forget that a lot of their fellow hitters, and a lot of pitchers facing them, were also using steroids. the playing field for bonds/mcgwire/whoever was probably a lot more fair than you'd like to believe. Agree.

None ever came up about Arod until recently, either. At this point, I think it's safe to assume they nearly all were using and that tons still are, but are being more judicious about their use. But did anyone really want to find info on ARod? I think Andy's point is that hypothetically people are compelled to actively look for dirt on Sosa and haven't come up with anything. this is true. it's not like sosa isn't implicated because nobody really cares whether he juiced. i can guarantee you that magazines, newspapers and tv stations have dug into sosa's past to try to find proof - circumstantial or otherwise - that he used roids. he was one of the biggest baseball stars in the '90s and it would be a big story to whoever broke it. And that's different from A-Rod, how? It's a way bigger story that A-Rod used over Sammy, in my opinion.

Ha. In my mind he probably is, but that's just because I'm to the point where I think it's a very, very high percentage that have done it. Look at it this way, some of the greatest hitters of our generation now have positive tests (according to these leaks). There is no way that the very best are using while the vast majority are not. I.E., think of all the guys on the cusp, etc. that need all the edge they can get to try and get a contract. Don't know if I explained that very well.

None ever came up about Arod until recently, either. At this point, I think it's safe to assume they nearly all were using and that tons still are, but are being more judicious about their use.

I bet Jared Lorenzen isn't taking PEDs. If you change the wording to 'never used', then you probably lose your bet. They pretty much all use something. What do you mean by "something"? Just because something is a supplement doesn't mean it's in some sort of legal gray area. And I would dispute the notion that they pretty much all did something that was either illegal, would become illegal, or could loosely be defined as a PED. Then, in my opinion, your dispute is wrong. I believe the vast majority did / do / will do illegal PEDs. Illegal in their sport, and often illegal according to law.

I bet Jared Lorenzen isn't taking PEDs. If you change the wording to 'never used', then you probably lose your bet. They pretty much all use something.

Using a substance to break cherished records or unnaturally inflate statistics is awesome? If you like seeing big huge goons wack something around, try WWE. Everyone uses substances. It's just a matter of which substance is on which arbtirary list. Not everyone uses them. Not everyone uses horse steroids. Even if everyone used them does not justify them using them. It doesn't justify the use, but nearly every high level athlete is on something.

I'm pretty much with you. More players than we'll ever know took them, take them now, and will take something in the future. And, performance enhancers are in all profesional and high-level amateur sports.

I saw it scroll across Mike and Mike yesterday. I'm with you- save it for the Cubs.

So help me God if that was one of the reasons for this trade... bako hit .217/.299/.328 last year, and it was his best offensive season since 2005. also, he'll turn 37 in june. if you don't think koyie hill can replicate bako will do, you should clear the spot you need for bako by cutting hill. And, if I recall, that Bako line was aided by a hot streak early in the year that prompted Dusty to start him a lot.

Why, do they usually win when you are there?

ESPN scroll this morning said he's not pitching in WBC.