ZZ Thorn

God Macias sure sucks, what with the way he crossed the plate. I wish I had talked incessantly about how much he sucks....

Good thing players like Pujols didn't come up under Dusty. He might still be a platoon player right now. LOL, Cedeno is no Pujols. You're missing the point. It blatantly doesn't matter how promising a young player is, he gets little shot under Dusty. I think it was Bob's Keeper that did the excellent study which is floating around somewhere in the archives, which showed that not once in Baker's managing career has he had a rookie under 26 win a starting job under him. Seriously. that's glaring. I guess that's not including pitchers. Or CP, who Dusty could've benched. And Bobby Hill is in the minors, Hee Seop Choi sucks in LA, and the Cubs have been notorious for several years for being able to produce good pitchers but not good hitters out of their minor league system. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I think you're missing the point that Cedeno, while talented, is hardly a can't miss player. He could easily be a utility infielder his whole career. He'll get his PT and a good player will take advantage of it.

I agree nearly completely. But for 2006 having him hit 1/2 would likely be a way to help teach him plate discipline and the art of hitting, as well as to optimize what he can contribute to the team. I don't see Pie displacing Lee at #3, ARam at #4 or being a #5 hitter for a couple years at least tho. Let's say we get a real slugger like Dunn, which is very possible, Pie won't crack the middle of the order for several years then. He could be a #2 hitter a la Sandberg/Nomar next year and for years to come tho. A player doesn't learn "the art of hitting" from hitting in a spot in the batting order, ask Corey. That's certainly true, but Corey didn't seem to learn anything at any time - he just got 'by' on natural talent. If Pie is the same way he'll have a similar to CP. Corey Patterson - there's one guy I don't miss watching play everyday.

Honestly, how would we even know that since he never gets to play? ](*,) Just by looking at stick Cedeno and big balding bull Pujols. I mean c'mon....

Good thing players like Pujols didn't come up under Dusty. He might still be a platoon player right now. LOL, Cedeno is no Pujols.

I agree nearly completely. But for 2006 having him hit 1/2 would likely be a way to help teach him plate discipline and the art of hitting, as well as to optimize what he can contribute to the team. I don't see Pie displacing Lee at #3, ARam at #4 or being a #5 hitter for a couple years at least tho. Let's say we get a real slugger like Dunn, which is very possible, Pie won't crack the middle of the order for several years then. He could be a #2 hitter a la Sandberg/Nomar next year and for years to come tho.

I do not want Pena. He's Dunn minus the OBP, and take that OBP from Dunn and you have a one trick pony/weight around the neck of a team.

I don't doubt Pie's power potential, I just wonder how it will be for 2006. Seems like he'd be better served to be in the minors, but it also seems like the Cubs want him with the big club. And I don't think he'll hit 30 home runs next year. Pie or Murton seem interchangeable to me 1/2 for 2006. You could make a case for either to leadoff. One reason 30 and 40 home run hitters are rarer in the minors than one might think is cuz they get moved up before they finish the season.

I've never seen him anywhere other than 1/2. If he develops 30 HR power it's not going to be for several years IMO. Dunn looks a lot better in that lineup than Kearns IMO. That's interesting, because before he got hurt, he was on pace for 25-30 homers this season. But that's in AA - I think in the pros he's a few years away from that. If he starts next year I'd bet he hits less than 20 dingers. Long term tho, he could have Beltran like power production.

I've never seen him anywhere other than 1/2. If he develops 30 HR power it's not going to be for several years IMO. Dunn looks a lot better in that lineup than Kearns IMO.

Let's look to the future: Murton could be I think a very good leadoff hitter or an excellent #2 hitter a la Todd Walker if he can hit righties well. He should get on base at a very good clip and be adept at the usual #2 hitter duties that make for consistent scoring. But if our CF (Pie) and LF are our #1 and #2 hitters, our 2b and SS are going to have to have more pop than normal. I don't think it'll be a big problem tho, cuz they'll provide decent pop, and we get great pop from the corner IFs, have a very offensively productive catcher, and we could really upgrade with a power RF with the money we'll save from such cheap production at the other 2 OF spots. A guy like Walker at 2b would be a spot to upgrade pop-wise, but 2b with pop are few and far between. If we don't go with Nomar next year but Cedeno, that spreads our pop even thinner. There's no law that we can't not get great pop from our LF if he fills another role especially well. '06 Pie Murton Lee Aram Kearns Walker Barrett Cedeno (Nomar?) What do y'all think of that lineup? That's a lineup with very good pop where it should be, good speed/OBP at the top and consistency throughout. Pie probably will have average OBP his rookie year, but we gotta take some lumps with him. Sure be nice if Nomar returns to form and we can bat him 5th or 6th.

Murton, Pie, Kearns next year doesn't sound that bad - a lot of long-term potential.

With all the parity this year it's hard to say - this is the slowest trade deadline week I can recall. I think Hendry will make moves - he has in the past, he has a couple definite long term needs, he has chips to barter with. I think he'll get a reliver if he can swing anything.

ZZ - I think that would be exactly on target if Gerut wasn't a factor at this point. Even if Dusty does bench Holly, won't Gerut split time with Murton and get most of the AB's against righties? I don't know - Gerut hasn't been used much, so I don't know how he'll get used. We know he can't hit lefties. He could be used to play CF more often than LF. But taking some time from Murton is very possible. Murton is definitely sewing up the right to play against lefties. I wouldn't call Hairston an everyday player just yet, and his play this season is far from phonomenal (.350 OBP isnt' that great, his BA isn't good, his SB success is terrible, he makes too many mental errors), so I'd say it's all pretty up in the air. Murton is making the most of his opportunities and he should get more opportunities at the expense of Hairston, Holla and Gerut IMO.

I'm all for easing Murton in, he's still getting PT. However, now he's excelling and Holla is really slumping - giving Murton more starts is the way to go now. It was not the way to go earlier: Holla was on fire in June (his BA/SLG for that month was .360/.547) and the first week of July. However, since July 7th: 5/40, 2 doubles, 6 Ks, 4 bbs - that's a .139 BA for nearly 3 weeks. When he had a poor start and a simlarly terrible May Dusty sat him over Doobs, so I'm confident Murton will get the same opportunity, cuz he's doing way better than Doobs ever did. I didn't see any (reasonable) people complaining about Holla in June when he was killing, and I know nobody can forsee a slump, but Holla's officially slumping and Murton should get some more PT. Holla's not old per se, but he's streaky and needs rest. Starting Murton against the weaker RH and Holla versus the talented vets is a good idea.

I LOVE THE WAY HE BATS, HE DOESNT LOOK OVERMATCHED AT ALL, HE LOOKS LIKE HE IS COMMANDING THE PITCHER TO THROW HIM A HITTABLE PITCH. ALMOST BELLHORN-LIKE, BUT BETTER... Bellhorn-like hitter? There's no need to insult Matt. He can actually make non-foul ball contact regularly and he's not a whiff machine. And he's not looking to pull the ball - which I thought was against Cub law. He's looking to wait back as long as possible, see the pitch as much as possible, and then hit it on the screws to center or take it to right. He's great to watch to hit, tho I didn't see it last night (friggin power outage with every friggin storm in this friggin town).

From the comments at least, the Cubs have exactly the sense of urgency I was looking for. You don't want to start flipping out just yet, but it seems they're aware they have to make it happen post haste. I'd say today is a must win - can't lose 2/3 to the Giants. Sure hope they get off to a quick start offensively.

I'd like to see him leadoff - patience, speed, skilled bat handler. Sounds like a leadoff hitter to me. If we don't get a LF by Sunday I have to figure that's a major vote of confidence for Murton. He really is exactly the type of hitter we need in our lineup.

God, it's so predictable how these threads all become about Dusty instead of about the more interesting subject.... People just have no patience. Another sweet game by Murton! He's earning more PT with every start. No he wasn't annointed lifetime LF starter yet, but it's way early. Feel free to not give me your contrary point of view on that last sentence. Wish I saw the game, but WTG Big Red!

It wouldn't be Gary if the power didn't go out with every storm.... Missed the whole game. Another nice offensive game from Murton tho! Big game today - I really hope we get off to a good start offensively.

I agree totally: Wood and Williamson aren't locks at all, tho it's a good bet they'll be very effective. So we have to get another good reliever. As I posted in another thread, we are losing Remmy's contract after this year, Rusch is not that pricy, Demp will deservedly be...and then a bunch of young production. We can easily afford to pay for another talent worth $2-$3 million for a couple years and we need that talent this year. More than LF, getting a very good reliver should be the top priority.

I certainly side with Nevin - he has rights as a worker. A lot of people turn down moves offered by their work.

tom skilling is almost too thorough, also i think he's gay (literally) just wanted to add that phil rogers = lol also he's a huge idiot for wanting pujols over lee... kasper is dropping some science, god he's amazing When was younger I used to get annoyed with WGN's weather thoroughness - always made me wait so long until the sports segment started. Now I like it - he gives you the friggin weather in Siberia practically (Tom's forecast: cold). Great graphics too. Tom gay? It's possible, but he could just be a really nice, mellow guy. Is it rule all tv weathermen must be bald? LOL, nice shirt Rogers. Off to Hawaii after the game?

Does any non-Weather Channel tv station have a more thorough weather report than WGN? Is it possible to dislike Tom Skilling?

If he hadn't left the Cubs I'd show more love. Yes I know, the Cubs were "at fault" in losing him. WTG Greg. Carry on.