CubfaninCA

If they're grown men, I'm sure they can take it and not get all sensitive. So while we're disregarding people, we'll just call everyone who they feel applies whiny, stupid, arrogant, etc. Oh well, at least we'll finally be able to call out [you] for being a jerk all the time. So strawman argument's the equivalent of calling someone a jerk now. The intrepretation gets richer. All I said is that the argument lacked evidence and was weak. That's not harsh whatsoever, but keep holding that cape. ;) One(I think)... One what?

If they're grown men, I'm sure they can take it and not get all sensitive. So while we're disregarding people, we'll just call everyone who they feel applies whiny, stupid, arrogant, etc. Oh well, at least we'll finally be able to call out [you] for being a jerk all the time. So strawman argument's the equivalent of calling someone a jerk now. The intrepretation gets richer. All I said is that the argument lacked evidence and was weak. That's not harsh whatsoever, but keep holding that cape. ;)

No, but that may be your 1400th post needlessly bashing other posters while thinking that emoticon means something though. Not signing Furcal doesn't = stopgaps everywhere, that's a strawman argument itself for crying out loud. Trade for Bradley, get an Abreu, Wilkerson, Dunn, Gomes, etc., and maybe let Cedeno play SS. Where's the stopgap? Bashing?? Now that's a strawman. Nice disregard for your buddy's hyperbole. Consistent. I just now read the post you were referring too. But this crap is what I'm talking about. The point is made when you question whether "Hendry put all his eggs into Furcal's basket". It's a valid point, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. But you continually try to act victimized like one side of the argument is always at fault for not being perfect, and it really needs to stop. Make the point you want to make, stop there, don't attack the poster. "Victimized" = strawman I said the argument was a strawman argument. How the f did I "attack" the poster?? Don't spin off your chair friend w/ such accusations. I'll be sure to call every argument I see as flawed "Hendry defender strawman # X", and see the response that I get. If they're grown men, I'm sure they can take it and not get all sensitive. Everyone here isn't a grown man. lol My apologies to the 2 or 3 ladies. :)

The Cubs offer was more than fair they just got trumped by a GM trying to make a splash. True. It was more than fair, but that doesn't cut it nowadays.

No, but that may be your 1400th post needlessly bashing other posters while thinking that emoticon means something though. Not signing Furcal doesn't = stopgaps everywhere, that's a strawman argument itself for crying out loud. Trade for Bradley, get an Abreu, Wilkerson, Dunn, Gomes, etc., and maybe let Cedeno play SS. Where's the stopgap? Bashing?? Now that's a strawman. Nice disregard for your buddy's hyperbole. Consistent. I just now read the post you were referring too. But this crap is what I'm talking about. The point is made when you question whether "Hendry put all his eggs into Furcal's basket". It's a valid point, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. But you continually try to act victimized like one side of the argument is always at fault for not being perfect, and it really needs to stop. Make the point you want to make, stop there, don't attack the poster. "Victimized" = strawman I said the argument was a strawman argument. How the f did I "attack" the poster?? Don't spin off your chair friend w/ such accusations. I'll be sure to call every argument I see as flawed "Hendry defender strawman # X", and see the response that I get. If they're grown men, I'm sure they can take it and not get all sensitive.

The Cubs won't pay enough. They need to focus on free agents outside the top 5.

I disagree. Furcal is now the 2nd highest paid shortstop behind Jeter. He's going to make more money than Tejada next year. That's a complete joke. On a side note, how bad does it look now that we didn't put more effort into getting Tejada a couple of years ago??? :cry: Didn't we have AGonz making $5.5 million though?? How much you think Tejada would get in this market?? $16 million per??

No, but that may be your 1400th post needlessly bashing other posters while thinking that emoticon means something though. Not signing Furcal doesn't = stopgaps everywhere, that's a strawman argument itself for crying out loud. Trade for Bradley, get an Abreu, Wilkerson, Dunn, Gomes, etc., and maybe let Cedeno play SS. Where's the stopgap? Bashing?? Now that's a strawman. Nice disregard for your buddy's hyperbole. Consistent. I just now read the post you were referring too. But this crap is what I'm talking about. The point is made when you question whether "Hendry put all his eggs into Furcal's basket". It's a valid point, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. But you continually try to act victimized like one side of the argument is always at fault for not being perfect, and it really needs to stop. Make the point you want to make, stop there, don't attack the poster. "Victimized" = strawman I said the argument was a strawman argument. How the f did I "attack" the poster?? Don't spin off your chair friend w/ such accusations.

It may be a long time before the Cubs pick up a top 5 free agent. The Trib's not going to pay big bucks in a crazy market. Sad day.

No, but that may be your 1400th post needlessly bashing other posters while thinking that emoticon means something though. Not signing Furcal doesn't = stopgaps everywhere, that's a strawman argument itself for crying out loud. Trade for Bradley, get an Abreu, Wilkerson, Dunn, Gomes, etc., and maybe let Cedeno play SS. Where's the stopgap? Bashing?? Now that's a strawman. Nice disregard for your buddy's hyperbole. Consistent.

How is a 320 OBP, sub 800 OPS, and miserable defense something to long for? Put a fork in him, he's done. sub 800 OPS? sounds like furcal. Exactly. If the Furcal to the Dodgers story is true, there's no way Furcal is worth 13 million or even 10 million/year. I'd take Nomar at 5 million with some incentives based upon PA, and be content with the same production. Furcal OPS in 2004: 758 Furcal OPS in 2005: 777 Garciaparra can do that, for a fraction of the cost. Cedeno can do that for a minumal amount compared to both Furcal and Garciaparra. For a fraction of the cost, he'll give the Cubs 100 less games too.

People don't want to waste money, but would love to bring back one of the most unreliable guys in the baseball. Baffling. Where's the evidence that Hendry put all his eggs into Furcal's basket?? Do we have Jim Hendry's a Moran Strawman #1400? :o

I'm sure you'd agree that it's a good thing he didn't match the Dodger offer, though. I am pretty bummed, but I am glad we're not shelling out 13 mil/yr for Rafael Furcal. It's not my money, so oh well. Everybody's overpaying nowadays. Wait around for Walker deals and we'll get no one. Still. One bad salary will affect the rest of the roster and affect the quality of the team. Rafael Furcal, second highest paid SS in baseball? I guess so. Going w/ a bunch of stop gaps cause you can't get real good free agents isn't a good thing either.

On the contrary, I think Hendry has a storied history of overpayment. Off the top of my head, I would include: Baker Remlinger Alfonseca Estes Burnitz Macias Neifi I meant the NSBB benchmark. No doubt Hendry has overpaid on several occasions, and it has been discussed here ad naseum.

I'm sure you'd agree that it's a good thing he didn't match the Dodger offer, though. I am pretty bummed, but I am glad we're not shelling out 13 mil/yr for Rafael Furcal. It's not my money, so oh well. Everybody's overpaying nowadays. Wait around for Walker deals and we'll get no one.

Yep. OBP! I would like more of that please. Also, if we cut Neifi as soon as the ink dries on the Furcal contract. Some convincing job he gave. I never bought that anyway "Yeah Raffy, come here and take my starting job, I don't want to play anyway" NEIFI'D!!! Hopefully, they get Giles. Oh wait he signed w/ a SoCal team too.

Pop the champagne fellas. God forbid Hendry overpay anyone. Todd Walker deals are the benchmark. ;)

Surprising deal. I guess LA is going to spend some money. Who are the Cubs going to spend money on now??

When was the last time you where in Pittsburg? I was there last year for a few Cub games over the couse of a weekend. The city is alive and well. The downtown is thriving and they have new shopping and tourism attractions. IMO, the problem is that they haven't been good in a long time. If the Steelers can sell out Heinz field, the Pirates can sell out PNC. Why would I want to go to Pittsburgh? Yikes! So what, they threw a bunch of government money to bring alive downtown. So did Cincy. It still doesn't change the fact that they're both old economy cities. Both places should be one sport towns. Send the baseball franchises to the East or West Coast or to Chicago. Man, are you parochial, or what? The Reds and Pirates are original NL teams, they're just as proud as our Cubs. And they're not the "poor sisters" many make them out to be, it's lousy baseball teams that are the problem, not fan support or lack of underlying passion. There are nearly 7 million people in the effective Reds dominance area, including Louisville, Dayton, Columbus and Indianapolis. Pittsburgh is in a little tougher spot, but they are in better shape than KC, Milwaukee, Tampa and frankly, San Diego in terms of total fan base size. Honus Wagner. Ernie Lombardi. Ted Kluszewski. Ralph Kiner. Roberto Clemente. Pops Stargell. The Big Red Machine. Not sure where you're getting SD?? People near & in SD have lots of money and can afford the rising ticket prices, which is a big part of producing revenue. And I forgot about KC. As for Cincy, all I keep hearing is that the Cincy metro's going downhill fast. So, baseball should only be in markets full of affluent people? :roll: I hope you're never in a position to make important decisions. If you want a competitive league, you need to put them either in most of the affluent regions or change the financing. Why have 5-8 organizations that are essentially minor league systems?? Some of these organizations are a joke. The utopian in me prefers them going w/ tradition and keeping teams in the old cities. However, the realist in me figures there won't be a change & they need to move some organizations like Tampa & Florida, which are quite affluent btw, but for some reason don't support baseball.

Probably.. A risky move by Jim since they give LA more budget space. Hopefully, Bradley remains sane for an entire season.

When was the last time you where in Pittsburg? I was there last year for a few Cub games over the couse of a weekend. The city is alive and well. The downtown is thriving and they have new shopping and tourism attractions. IMO, the problem is that they haven't been good in a long time. If the Steelers can sell out Heinz field, the Pirates can sell out PNC. Why would I want to go to Pittsburgh? Yikes! So what, they threw a bunch of government money to bring alive downtown. So did Cincy. It still doesn't change the fact that they're both old economy cities. Both places should be one sport towns. Send the baseball franchises to the East or West Coast or to Chicago. Man, are you parochial, or what? The Reds and Pirates are original NL teams, they're just as proud as our Cubs. And they're not the "poor sisters" many make them out to be, it's lousy baseball teams that are the problem, not fan support or lack of underlying passion. There are nearly 7 million people in the effective Reds dominance area, including Louisville, Dayton, Columbus and Indianapolis. Pittsburgh is in a little tougher spot, but they are in better shape than KC, Milwaukee, Tampa and frankly, San Diego in terms of total fan base size. Honus Wagner. Ernie Lombardi. Ted Kluszewski. Ralph Kiner. Roberto Clemente. Pops Stargell. The Big Red Machine. Not sure where you're getting SD?? People near & in SD have lots of money and can afford the rising ticket prices, which is a big part of producing revenue. And I forgot about KC. As for Cincy, all I keep hearing is that the Cincy metro's going downhill fast.

If the Cards expect that Monday "deadline" to be a promise, they're really, really dumb. Setting a deadline the day Winter Meetings begin is a pretty obvious negotiation move. As a life-long Arkansan, I really appreciate you talking crap about me and the other citizens of the state. When a native Chicagoan wants to play for the Cubs it's called "coming home." When an Arkansan wants to play for the Cards (Arkansas is historically a Cardinal state) it' called wanting to be a "hill billy." Thank you for Bill Clinton. :)

What do you mean by national popularity?? All I know is if the 3rd NY team made the World Series, they would probably get higher ratings than most other clubs. Their rating share would probably dwarf teams like Cincy and Pittsburgh. That seems to be all that matters nowadays. EDIT: My suggestion is to change the financing. However, both Florida teams need to move. That place is just all about football. Even up the money and possibly Cincy and Pittsburgh can survive. As you mention, they have long histories, and it would be a shame to see them have to move. If they keep the current financing system, yes they should send those franchises elsewhere. Both are essentially farm systems for the big market teams.

When was the last time you where in Pittsburg? I was there last year for a few Cub games over the couse of a weekend. The city is alive and well. The downtown is thriving and they have new shopping and tourism attractions. IMO, the problem is that they haven't been good in a long time. If the Steelers can sell out Heinz field, the Pirates can sell out PNC. Why would I want to go to Pittsburgh? Yikes! So what, they threw a bunch of government money to bring alive downtown. So did Cincy. It still doesn't change the fact that they're both old economy cities. Both places should be one sport towns. Send the baseball franchises to the East or West Coast or to Chicago. So, in your point of view, all cities in Middle America with the exception of Chicago should be one sport cities. Get a clue! Depends on the city. As someone else pointed out, Pittsburgh is a football town. Hence it's very difficult for baseball to be competitive given that there's no salary cap. St. Louis can survive w/ baseball and football, cause it's a baseball town by far, and football has a salary cap. This has more to do with revenue sharing than with a salary cap. Football has a much better plan for revenue sharing than baseball does. If revenues were more evenly distributed, it would not be nearly the problem it is. Baseball has been working on that issue, but there is still a long, long way to go. Good point. My basic point is that if baseball doesn't change the way they finance the game certain franchises are toast and would be better served by moving to much bigger metro areas. New York could easily have a 3rd team. Perhaps even a fourth.

When was the last time you where in Pittsburg? I was there last year for a few Cub games over the couse of a weekend. The city is alive and well. The downtown is thriving and they have new shopping and tourism attractions. IMO, the problem is that they haven't been good in a long time. If the Steelers can sell out Heinz field, the Pirates can sell out PNC. Why would I want to go to Pittsburgh? Yikes! So what, they threw a bunch of government money to bring alive downtown. So did Cincy. It still doesn't change the fact that they're both old economy cities. Both places should be one sport towns. Send the baseball franchises to the East or West Coast or to Chicago. whatever. I just find it funny (not really) that you would bag on a place you know nothing about. The old economy you talk about was gone a long time ago. But to each his own I guess. Yes, it's gone and what has replaced it besides a bunch of government money??? I've taken quite a few economics classes and read often, I'm not just wingin it here.... They don't have much of a shot going against the big dogs, NY, Boston, SoCal, Chicago & Houston. The Cardinals survive on a rabid fan base, good management & tons of luck. For the most part, baseball's a rich man's game. They need a salary cap. But, that still doesn't address the issue about competetiveness of small market teams, which has become a facet of this discussion. Why don't they have much of a shot? The Marlins have no fan base and are repeatedly juggling their payroll to cut costs. And, if you are dismissing Oakland simply because they have Beane, that seems unfair. The Pirates have as much of a chance as anyone to land a Beane-type GM if they chose to go that route. Cleveland has been growing competetively for two years now. If you're waiting for them to be one hit wonders from 2005, not only was it not applicable for this year, but 2006 should be another good year. Competetiveness is more a function of an organization than fan base or revenue. Higher revenue should make it easier in theory to be competetive, but it neither guarantees competetiveness, nor does a lack of revenue preclude competetiveness. Yes, organization is key for the small/middle market orgs, hence why Oakland has been competitive for the past several years, as Beane's a drafting god. There's only so many Billy Beane's out there though. For the most part, revenue's the deciding factor in baseball though. NY & Boston have been really good cause they can outspend everyone, and cover up bad signings or a poor minor league. Yes, a big revenue teams can really suck, but many of the winners in the past 10 years have had big revenues. Iirc Florida in 97 and AZ in 01 or 02 (whenever they won it) had a good sized budget, but had to make major reductions afterwards. Iirc the White Sox and Florida in 03 were middle market spenders. Can't recall any small markets even getting into the World Series recently. Hence put a fork in Cincy, Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Yes, Cleveland was good in the 90's, but they used to spend lots too.