CubsWin

Just finished listening to Jed on MLB radio. He's a good GM so he didn't give away anything. He was asked if he was offered Turner and Castellanos would he accept it for Garza and just laughed and said he wouldn't comment on specific trades but listening between the lines, it confirmed everything we are thinking. He's going to trade him if offered the right package. He maintains that they are willing to sign him long term and build around him. Basically he said everything you'd expect a smart GM to say who is trying to give himself as much leverage as possible in trade negotiations. They're trying to and want to trade Garza but are committed to getting as much as possible and in order to do that you have to wait until there is some sort of time pressure to get a team to step up. All these leaks about something happening soon is probably just the Cubs trying to creat that urgency. But the thing that gets this trade done, obviously, is when some team puts a package on the table that gives the Cubs high enough caliber talent with longest team control over those players. And who knows when and if that's going to happen.

Yeah. Like dextermorgan said, we're not using the money on anything else and we have it available, might as well spend a little bit of it on the last bastion of Cubs nostalgia we have to keep the fans happy. True, but the Cubs might still be spending their money on stuff. The restriction on IFA money doesn't begin until July 2nd. And there are some really good IFAs out there (Cespedes, Soler, Concepcion). Plus, if they are able to trade Soriano (and have already traded Z) and eat most of his remaining salary, they can chalk up the money they're eating to the money their saving on this year's payroll allowing the team to effectively move forward with a blank slate financially after this season.

Yeah, but we have 3 high celing CF prospects in Jackson, Szczur, and Ha, 4 if you count Rubi Silva but nothing in the form of corner outfielders. Part of me would just as soon get Drabek, Snider, and 2 young high celing guys. And personally I do think we have some high ceiling talent in the under 21 crowd, just none that we'll be seeing in the next 3 years with the possible exceptions of Jackson, Szczur, and McNutt. we probably have zero high-ceiling CF prospects. jackson doesn't have a high ceiling; everyone thinks he's likely to be average to above average because he does a lot of things pretty well and nothing really well. szczur is only a high ceiling guy if you think his power and patience will develop. ha is probably not a CF and doesn't have a high ceiling, and rubi silva sucks. even ignoring your poor usage of the term "high ceiling," it's good to amass good prospects regardless of position. if brett jackson turns out to be a bum, maybe you hit it rich with gose. or if jackson is firmly established in CF and you don't think gose's bat profiles well in a corner, then you trade gose for a position of need. Agreed. None of those Cubs prospects are legit "high-ceiling" guys. I think it's important for the Cubs to get the best pitching prospects they can if they're going to trade Garza, but ultimately its about getting the most talent/value back, because when the opportunity presents itself, the Cubs can always turn other highly regarded prospects into high-end pitching prospects down the road.

The White Sox traded reliever Jason Frasor back to the Blue Jays. Considering the traded Edwin Jackson and Mark Teahen for him and Zach Stewart, they didn't get a lot back. They get a pair minor leaguers pitchers for him, Miles Jaye and Daniel Webb...

Breaking news - Rick Porcello sucks. Agreed. Ceiling's not nearly high enough to exchange Garza for him.

Sure, if they didn't make any more trades or signings in the next year, then, yeah... They would have to trade many of the prospects that they just acquired or developed because there's nothing left on the roster that's going to get anything in return. As for signings FAs , they would need at least 4 top FAs next year (2 pitchers and 2 position players) to have a real shot. Both of those ideas seem to be the opposite of what Theo wants to do. What if there were only two FAs signed (a starter and a 1B), the kind that fit with ? What if the return on trading Garza, Byrd, Marmol and possibly Soto provided the Cubs with a decent BOR starting pitcher, a TOR prospect that was not too far away, a very good position player prospect (preferably C or 3B) and some good low A ball prospects? It is certainly possible that by 2013 Cashner will be stretched out to be in the rotation. So the Cubs would be looking at a rotation of the FA signing, the TOR prospect, Travis Wood, acquired BOR starter, and one of Cashner/Shark/McNutt/Wells. That rotation is not a championship rotation on paper but its not punting either? That's a rotation that is set to improve with age and compete now. The line-up would be: C - Castillo/acquired top prospect 1B - FA signing (Fielder) 2B - whoever it is will likely be league average or below SS - Castro 3B - Stewart/acquired top prospect LF - Soriano CF - Jackson RF - DeJesus That line-up could suck if Castillo/Stewart and Brett Jackson suck. If they're good, that line-up may not be championship caliber on paper, but it is far from punting. I think its certainly possible that Theo and Co. do wind up punting on 2013 as well. But that is yet to be seen. And, frankly, if they think that Fielder isn't the type of player they want to bet on and if they don't like any of the free agent pitcher's next season, which is unlikely, then I would want them to punt on 2013 and build this team the right way and not handcuff the Cubs with player's they'll regret having signed just so that they wouldn't look like they were giving up on winning for a couple of seasons. You had better be signing a real ace for the rotation because Wood/Wells/Shark are BOR starters and Jays prospect/McNutt/Cashner are all questions marks. As for the offense, you had better keep your fingers crossed with Jackson, Castillo, Stewart, and Soriano in the lineup. That's exactly what I said. As of now, the FA pitchers available next off season are an impressive list. (Matt Cain, Cole Hamels, Jered Weaver, etc.) Plus, question marks aren't always a bad thing, especially good questions marks like Cashner, Shark, Travis Wood, McNutt, Brett Jackson, Stewart and Castillo. They are all young enough to still be improving. Taking a chance to see what they can do is far from giving up or as you put it "punting". If Matt Cain, Prince Fielder and the haul the Cubs get back from trading Garza, Marmol, Byrd and possibly Soto are added to young talented players with a chance like Cashner, Travis Wood, McNutt, Brett Jackson, etc., who's to say that team definitely can't compete in 2013? Might they all suck? Yep. In which case, say good-bye to 2013. But if enough of them don't, Theo and Jed should be able to put enough talent around them via free agency to have a team with a chance by 2013 while building for a dynastic future at the same time.

Latest speculation from espn's rumor central: Jason Churchill thinks Detroit might be willing to give up Porcello but doubts the Tigers would be willing to give up Turner. Would you be willing to accept Porcello, Castellanos and some lesser prospects for Garza?

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood. 1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????). I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is. Sure, if they didn't make any more trades or signings in the next year, then, yeah... They would have to trade many of the prospects that they just acquired or developed because there's nothing left on the roster that's going to get anything in return. As for signings FAs , they would need at least 4 top FAs next year (2 pitchers and 2 position players) to have a real shot. Both of those ideas seem to be the opposite of what Theo wants to do. What if there were only two FAs signed (a starter and a 1B), the kind that fit with ? What if the return on trading Garza, Byrd, Marmol and possibly Soto provided the Cubs with a decent BOR starting pitcher, a TOR prospect that was not too far away, a very good position player prospect (preferably C or 3B) and some good low A ball prospects? It is certainly possible that by 2013 Cashner will be stretched out to be in the rotation. So the Cubs would be looking at a rotation of the FA signing, the TOR prospect, Travis Wood, acquired BOR starter, and one of Cashner/Shark/McNutt/Wells. That rotation is not a championship rotation on paper but its not punting either? That's a rotation that is set to improve with age and compete now. The line-up would be: C - Castillo/acquired top prospect 1B - FA signing (Fielder) 2B - whoever it is will likely be league average or below SS - Castro 3B - Stewart/acquired top prospect LF - Soriano CF - Jackson RF - DeJesus That line-up could suck if Castillo/Stewart and Brett Jackson suck. If they're good, that line-up may not be championship caliber on paper, but it is far from punting. I think its certainly possible that Theo and Co. do wind up punting on 2013 as well. But that is yet to be seen. And, frankly, if they think that Fielder isn't the type of player they want to bet on and if they don't like any of the free agent pitcher's next season, which is unlikely, then I would want them to punt on 2013 and build this team the right way and not handcuff the Cubs with player's they'll regret having signed just so that they wouldn't look like they were giving up on winning for a couple of seasons.

Saltwell had little to do with anything in that deal. Wrigley was way old school, as in pre-Jackie Robinson if you get my meaning. He couldn't stand the idea of a black man demanding more money. That was the reason Madlock was traded. It wasn't the money as you correctly pointed out. They agreed to pay Murcer more than Madlock was asking for. It was that Madlock was being "uppity" in the eyes of Philip K. Wrigley.

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood. 1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????). I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is. Sure, if they didn't make any more trades or signings in the next year, then, yeah...

Everyone needs a closer but if we do trade Marmol we might want to see which of the younger guys handle the roll best. Cashner might be the best choice but I'd still prefer he start. Weathers could be an interesting stuff. From what I hear he has electric stuff when he can manage to control it. Sounds like Marmol, Carpenter, and Shark. However, Dolis is the only one of the bunch with any closing experience but he simply doesnt have the stuff the other guys do. For some reason I always thought he was a hard thrower until I saw him in action. He is a hard thrower. Mid-90s fastball that can touch high-90s. Mid-80s slider.

Nope. Not yet.

Agreed. Those only have value if he is able to produce around league average. We know what Marshall will give you. We don't really know which Travis Wood the Cubs are going to get.

Yeah, I think I do too. Odds are, the prospects aren't going to be just filler. Getting 3 players for a short reliever with 1 year left on his contract is probably going to be a good deal regardless of the players. Getting a back of the rotation starter for 4 years is not a horrible return by itself. It's certainly possible that Wood for Marshall by itself would turn out to be a good trade for the Cubs. But there is no guarantee that Wood will be a rotation starter for 4 years. He wasn't able to get AAA hitters out very well last season. He could turn out to be a bust. And Marshall isn't just a short reliever with 1 year left on his contract as you put it. He's a very reliable, sometimes dominant, left-handed short reliever. Those are rare and can be very important pieces to a team making a run at it all.

Thank you. But now of course all of this talk of packaging Garza and Marshall is moot.

Not a lot. IF Henry Rodriguez, lefty reliever Chris Manno, IF Billy Hamilton, P Daniel Corcino...

Young. Under team control until 2016. Decent pedigree as a 2nd round pick. Had previous success at the minor league level until struggling mightily last year. Buy low candidate. Still sounds pretty risky to me. I would want some good prospects along with him.

any detail on secondary pieces? That's going to make or break the trade for me. Indeed. At first blush, I felt the Cubs could get more for Marshall than Travis Wood, so I'm very interested to see who the other two prospects are.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7377087/chicago-cubs-trading-sean-marshall-cincinnati-reds Nothing new. Just another confirmation.

ummm err....wha? What did I miss on Nestor Molina? Did he get traded or something? Here is his page at Baseball Prospectus. Nestor Molina

I've always been more of a dynasty guy than a win now guy so I'm all for trading Garza and Marshall so long as the Cubs can get a haul in return. One team that needs both of them is the Toronto Blue Jays. They really have no good left-handed reliever and they just missed out on Darvish. Now might be the time to strike. Their system is stocked at the moment. If the Blue Jays could get both Garza and Marshall without giving up any major leaguers integral to them winning now and without giving up any of their top 3 prospects, might they do it? The Cubs would get their 4th, 5th and 9th best prospects (as ranked by BA) LHP Daniel Norris, LHP Justin Nicolino and RHP Drew Hutchison. Norris was the Jays 1st round pick last year. Nicolino was their 2nd rounder in 2010 and Hutchison was a 15th rounder in '09. I subscribe to the three pitching prospects equals one very good major leaguer theory because one will falter, one will get injured and one will make it. So those three for Garza. And then pick some combination of the following for Marshall. Travis Snider, Nestor Molina, A.J. Jiminez or Danny Barnes. If need be the Cubs can give up some of their prospects to balance it out. I'm no expert on what minor league talent value equals that of very good, young, established players like Garza and Marshall, so I could be way off base. That might be a lot, I don't know. What I do know is the Blue Jays seem motivated to make a run at the AL East and they have the system to overpay and not really feel it. Someone help me out. Is there a fit here?

Boxberger's numbers last year were sick. If the Reds weren't just selling high on him, meaning he truly is that good, the Padres did very, very well in this deal.

Toronto is a pretty diverse multi-cultural city. It's not Kansas City. But it's still Canada. Could be much much worse for him. It was a joke. Come on, it's always fun to pick on our neighbors to the north.

Toronto is a pretty diverse multi-cultural city. It's not Kansas City. But it's still Canada. Its more American than say San Diego,Houston, Miami or Los Angeles Is that racist? I can never tell. Northside Blues is totally right. A city in a foreign country is definitely more American than cities in America.

Toronto is a pretty diverse multi-cultural city. It's not Kansas City. But it's still Canada.