then why are you arguing with me? i never suggested that he won't get a sizable one. i stated that he wont get the same one he COULD get had he brought save numbers to the negotiating table. No, what you stated was, "is it really this hard or are you intentionally being obtuse? a closer is someone who pitches the 9th inning when their team is winning. he's the person who racks up saves. he's also the person who gets paid more than the setup men and the long relievers (assuming service time, of course). yes, teams could and will consider marmol as someone who could be a great closer. but unless carlos has been a closer, he wont get paid like a closer." Did I obtusely misunderstand that? i think you did. do you have someone nearby that can read it to you? i honestly have no idea how youre not understanding what i'm saying. What could i say to that (resisting urge to say your mom)? Alright, that may have been over the line. But you're a piece of work. You get cought in a complete contradiction then have the balls to come back with more insults. So lemme get this straight: you two basically agree, you just enjoy a good internet fight too much to pass on the opportunity?