Little Slide Rooter
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Everything posted by Little Slide Rooter
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Heres another thing to think about: Even if we do sign Fielder, this could still be lost season, but a great way to start building. If they don't sign one of the big 2 and get going, it could be a lengthy building process. The wiser fans would be patient and stick around, but a lot of the casual fans and "meatballs" would say to hell with it, and their money is just as important as anyones. Say 3 years go by and the team doesn't look much better than it does now and we still have a middle of the road farm system. How many empty seats and lost revenue does it take before ownership forces management to do something drastic and stupid and next thing you know, the cycle is repeated? It doesn't have to be Fielder or Pujols, although they'd be great starts because you never know when guys like them will be available again, but there's really no reason to run this team like the Rays or Royals considering we have a lo more money and a lot less prospects.
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If Castro could develope some solid power he could be a 3 or at least a 5 hitter. Jackson at leadoff and Lake could be a good 2 hitter and if people don't have enough faith in Vitters at least being a good 6 hitter they may as well just give up on him. Cespedes would be the key because if he can be a productive middle of the order guy it pulls it all together with Fielder as the obvious 4.
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I guess it all depends one how most of these guys end up.
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3rd is probably the spot I was most torn. I supposed something like Soto or Castillo and LeMahieu and maybe a prospect could land Headley.
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Just imagining what the 2014 Cubs could look at with some smart spending and quality help from the farm 1B Prince Fielder 2B Junior Lake SS Starlin Castro 3B Blake DeWitt/DJ LeMahieu LF Josh Vitters CF Brett Jackson RF Cespedes C Wellington Castillo/Geo Soto SP Matt Cain SP Matt Garza SP Gavin Gloyd SP Trey McNutt SP Struck/Rhee/Whitenack CL Andrew Cashner BP Sean Marshall BP Rafael Dolis BP Chris Carpenter BP Jeff Beliveau BP James Russell BP Kevin Rhoderick Bench Matt Sczcur Bench DJ LeMahieu Bench Tyler Colvin/Tony Campana Bench Darwin Barney Bench Steve Clevenger
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Yeah, I know. But, would anyone be missing them if we had Pujols/Fielder + CJ on the team 4 years from now? Well, anyone other than Dave? Given how many prospects actually make it from the draft to the majors, I'm not sure it's much of a hit to the future. Not to mention that our draft MO seems to have shifted to late round over slots unless Selig takes that away.
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Toons pretty much sums it up as he usually does. I haven't had a whole lot of time to look at this but the Cubs aren't worried about losing Flaherty. Talking to one person, it was pointed out that utility guys who can't play shortstop usually don't stick with big league clubs taking them in the Rule 5. I remember last year people getting all worried about the Cubs losing Marquez Smith in the Rule 5. He wasn't taken. On Rhee, the Cubs apparently don't feel he can help them immediately, so they didn't want to give him a 40-man spot. They would have liked to see him pitch more innings since the surgery, but that is what it is. Bottom line is they could lose him, but they also lost Andy Sisco and Donnie Veal. I don't remember anyone being particularly worried about losing Marquez, but I remember thinking someone would take him. As for Rhee, yeah I don't think he's ready to help immediately, but he has a high enough ceiling that I'd prefer not risk losing him. Of the 3 guys they added to the roster, the only one who might be able to help immeidately is Beliveau so I don't think that's what it was about. Lake, Szczur, and Vitters are higher up on the prospect latter, but Rhee's surely top 15 and could be higher if he build on his 2011 2nd half.
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Now that guys like John Danks, Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, and to a lesser extent Gavin Floyd and Jair Jurrjens and possibly James Shields and Matt Garza are supposedly available for trade, I wonder if that could take Wilsons asking price down a notch. If the Yankees and Red Sox arent in the picture, it's going to be tough to start the bidding that high.
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Again, I'm trying to frame the argument so we can get to the bottom of which is more important to folks -- fielding the best team possible in 2012, or building for the future. If you consider that inexplicable and absurd, then feel free to bow out of the discussion. Do you want to move all of our tradeable assets for the best possible return? So we should trade Garza, Marshall, Marmol, Byrd and anyone else we can get a return for? And then not sign any star free agents to fill the gaps, of course. I'm just trying to get at which is more important to you, fielding the best team possible in 2012 or building for the future. The arguement is relevant only if it is the organizational plan. If they chose to do so, they have the resources to build a win now, or at least in 2013 team and keep building for the future as well. However, if they are not going to open the check book for Fielder/Pujols and somehow acquire a front end starting pitcher, I agree that they may as well move whoever they can aside from Castro because contention won't be an issue with what we have now and a couple of bargain bin additions.
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I wonder if this news is good for the Marlon Byrd market. I know Byrd has nowhere near Sizemores possible reward, but for teams looking for a 1 year commitmant for an outfielder he was a great option. The FA outfield market features Josh Willingham, David DeJesus, Michael Cuddyer, and Jason Kubel, who arent bad options, but I could understand a team not wanting to make more than a 1 year commitmant to any of those guys. Byrd can play pretty much any OF spot and has a solid bat as well. To a team without a ton of money to burn, I'm sure the Cubs would eat a substantial portion of his salary for the right return.
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Also, if the season started today our lineup could look like Jackson Castro Byrd LaHair Soriano Soto DeWitt Barney Couple that with a so-so rotation, its a recipe for 65 wins and alot of empty seats. With the farm system in its current state they need to do something.
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I can understand wanting to be cautious and building for the future, but Fielder and Pujols arent your average free agents, especially Pujols and are the type of guys who can make an immediate impact, and definitely great cornerstones for a building process. Especially considering that the recent trend seems to be teams locking up their young stars for as long as possible.
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I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying that it will be a very competitve division. The Phillies will likely manage to keep in the thick of it as well. As for The Mets...it could be a loooong decade.
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Debatable. I kept saying awhile ago to not rule out Fielder and the Nats. They reportedly like Espinosa long run at short, and have Desmond/Lombardozzi/Rendon to fit in the middle infield (it's possible Zimmerman moves to first and opens up 3rd for Rendon as well). Moving on a middle of the order bat makes sense, although I don't know if they can fit Fielder/SP unless they move some money (which is doable, DFA or trade Lannan/Gorzelanny and then look to shop LaRoche). Now, a top of the order bat should be a higher priority, but if they like their MI options, they may pursue a CF instead (but the Twins wanted Storen for Span, and they weren't willing to do that). The Lerners want to win ... and win soon. With Philly aging, the Nats may see an opening. True, but Atlanta and Miami feel the same way. Could be an interesting shift of power in that divison in the next few years.
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There are lot of media guys who seem to think that we're a lot more cash strapped than we are. We really only have 2 big contracts going right now, 1 of which will be up after this year. Ricketts even said that they have the money to spend on the right guy. Even if they were short on money, which they arent they could do some mild backloading.
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I'm thinking it's just like anytime you remove a guy from the 40 man and exposing him to waivers.
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But what if you don't keep him on the roster? Would it be any different than if you were to DFA him normally? There's no team to return him to if he's your own guy, although it's incredibly likely that someone would scoop him up if they didn't have to worry about a roster spot. Rhee and Antigua are 2 of our top 5-10 pitching prospects and I don't like the idea of leaving them exposed or giving them up as compensation. Flaherty and Jay Jackson would be fine by me.
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BA & BP's Cubs Top Prospect Lists
Little Slide Rooter replied to CaliforniaRaisin's topic in Cubs Minor League Talk
If it's not too late to submit questions: -
How the [expletive] are you coming to that conclusion? Just because he wisely doesn't want the Cubs to hold off spending until they start developing better players internally like davearm2 wants them to do doesn't mean he only wants the quick fix. Everyone with a functioning brain wants them to improve the farm system AND utilize their tremendous financial resources, so I have no idea why you're acting like that's only "your side of the argument." Because I am more focused on the long term moves that make us stronger in 2014 and beyond as opposed to more competitive in 2012, and still stronger in 2013-2014. But maybe not as strong in 2012, with a bit more long term focus in mind. This makes no sense; they don't have to pick one or the other. Trying to compete in 2012 doesn't negate being able to spend, trade or develop players for 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and so on and so on and so on. This is true but it comes down to the plans. They definitely have the resources to put together a winning team in the next 2-3 years, maybe even next year but if they simply don't plan on spending the money it would take to do so it simply won't happen by then so they may as well try to get a monster prospect package for Garza.
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Dale Sveum to Manage Cubs
Little Slide Rooter replied to Little Slide Rooter's topic in Chicago Cubs Talk
The last quote about hitters approach to facing Marmol is great. It was pretty clear last year that was the approach a lot of teams took. It will be interesting to see who is chosen for pitching coach and see how they can get Marmol more consistent. Assuming of course that Marmol is still on the team. Another problem with Marmol, velocity or not is that most hitters and coaches are long since on to his effective wildness and learned that if they just keep their bat on their shoulder they have a pretty good chance of getting on base. -
Can they do that? The thing with Rhee is that while I don't think he has quite what it takes yet to make it through a full season on a big league roster, and it's not as easy to hide a pitcher at the end of your pen as it is to hide a guy like Flaherty on your bench, but there are loopholes if a team is interested enough in keeping a guy as we learned with Donnie Veal. He didn't quite cut it at the big league level but the Pirates liked him enough to keep him around using the DL. Hopefully Rhee ends up much better than Veal and with The Cubs.
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That would make sense for Rhee or Antigua who are younger and not big league ready but still very much worth having in their system. I really hope we dont end up giving both up. As important as Epstein and Hoyer view the farm system, youd think that these are 2 young guys that theyd definitely want to keep around.
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Does anyone know if there's anyone interesting out there for the Rule 5 that we could snag? It has the same order as the amateur draft, right?
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I can't be the only one who's somewhat disturbed by the fact that Koyie Hill's still on the roster, can I?
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There's a lot of value in having a steady stream of those players, though. I don't know how many Flahertys other teams have so that would clearly have an impact if other teams are just teaming with players like him. Namely not paying 4.5 million for Aaron Miles.