Little Slide Rooter

Just last year. The Cards signed Holliday on January 8th. I think that was 2 years ago. At least in about 2 hours it will have been.

It depends on the extent of the rebuild, I think. I think the extent depends a lot on whether they trade Garza or not. I'm a bit wary of the potential contracts the FA pitchers are going to get next year (I'm expecting 6 years to be the minimum most of them get) and no matter who we get for Garza, he probably won't be a TOR type of guy by 2013. If we're not going to be set up well to compete in 2013, then I'm not a big fan of signing Prince. If he signs, say, a 6 year deal, you figure there's a good chance he'll be declining heavily the last couple years of the deal and if we're rebuilding for a couple years on the front-end, that leaves just a couple years where he's helping us compete. That's probably not worth a huge contract. If we do move Garza then the post 2012 starting pitching would be wide open. Assuming we could get Cain, there's our ace. If we could get Turner from Detroit he could ultimately be a good number 2, but he's only 20 so that's far from a sure thing. After that perhaps McNutt, Cashner, and Wood could round out the rotation. Again, a lot of ifs there but it could end up very strong.

I think Porcello would be flipped to another team. SD maybe. Not sure exactly what Detroit needs but I wonder if we could sell them on someone like Byrd or a reliever instead of a prospect. I know they have crazy eyes and Albaquerqe but I don't know what the rest oftheir pen looks like. Perhaps Dolis or Carpenter would interest them. I'd prefer keep Wood but of they want a 5th starter, they can have Wells. It might not be the Phillies, but Verlander, Garza, Fister, and Scherzer would be pretty sick.

Makes sense. Again, even the boogeyman phrases "rebuild" and "overhaul" don't suggest that they can't start the process with a good cornerstone.

Source? Or just trolling? I thought Backtobanks was a decent poster. #-o I really don't see any combination of players that I would want from the Marlins. Maybe they will take Zambrano and Soriano with Garza. :lol: Before he just had the annoying 3-way trade proposals, but he is trending more and more toward annoying troll every day. With some of the trade proposals I often wonder what would be worse, if he was doing it to troll or if he really thinks they make sense, but I don't think he's a troll by any means.

If the package is Turner+?+Porcello, I'd definitely be happy to take him, afterall, he is only 23 but he has no business as the centerpiece of the trade.

Breaking news - Rick Porcello sucks. Agreed. Ceiling's not nearly high enough to exchange Garza for him. I remember hearing a very vague speculation that we could deal Z to Detroit for Porcello, which I'd do in a heartbeat, but the one trade chip we can use for some big time prospects, no thank you very much. Maybe as a 3rd piece in a package.

LoMo please.

If we needed to move Garza for a salary dump or an expiring contract, then yes Id take that package. However, remember there's absolutely no urgency to trade Garza and even if we hung onto him until mid season his value would be just as high, probably higher depending who's in contention and in need of a front end starter. Say July rolls around and KC is in it and desires that they'll be willing to put Myers in a package and then Detroit decides to budge on Turner.

Sox probably could have got more for Quentin but on the same note it doesn't make much sense for the Padres. Quentin is a good hitter but the Padres offense needs a much bigger boost. Besides, Babe Ruth would have trouble OPSing over .800 playing half his games at Petco.

I'm glad you are not the GM. I wouldn't go into the season thinking "one more guy". Why? I'm suggestin that we sign Fielder who would be a guy to rebuild around going that route and simply playing wait and see for 6-7 months on a potential fire sale when much of what we have would have the same trade value, in some cases more depending on who needs what.

Now if we did keep Garza and sign Fielder I think we could have a decent team. Garza, Z, Demp, and Wood would be a solid 1-4 in the rotation and Cashner or Samardzia could be very good 5s. I guess we could get something for Wells if we got something for Gorz. We have the pieces for a strong bullpen too. As for the lineup, if we signed Fielder it would be nice to have one more big bat but DeJesus, Castro, Fielder, Soto, Soriano, Stewart, Byrd, Barney would be well balanced if nothing else and if we were contending in the summer who knows what will be available at the deadline and if not, then we can have a good old fashioned fire sale and probably get as much if not a bit more than if we did it now. I think that Theo is trying to avoid that type of band aid team out of principle, but my point is that we certainly wouldn't enter the season as favorites, there isn't any urgency to have a fire sale at this time.

To be fair, the 2012 Cardinals werent much less likely WS winners than the 2011 Giants or The 2003 Marlins. Then theres the 2006 Cardinals and their 83 [expletive] wins. Not to mention the great anomoly that was the 2005 White Sox. How that bunch won 99 games and a World Series is beyond me. Kenny Williams has argueably made as many bad moves as Jim Hendry has but Kenny has that 6 year old World Series trophy to hang his hat on and Hendry has a near miss and 3 choke jobs.

So he weant from Andruw Jones to Tyler Colvin that quickly, huh? Goes to show how important it is to actually scout these top international prospects rather than just going by word of mouth.

I'm not worried at all, but I found this a bit strange that he was seemingly pressing teams to come with their final offers. Next thing you know he'll be asking for a posting fee just to negotiate a trade. Then again, maybe this is how it normally works but I wouldn't know because we've never been on this side of this in demand of a commidity on the trade block.

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood. 1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????). I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is. Apparently your crystal ball sees further into the future than mine. Mine hasn't even made it to January yet. My crystal ball shows that there are a lot of unknowns (?) and holes for 2013 unless Theo & CO. reverse every move they've made since coming here. If yours doesn't show that, maybe you need a new crystal ball. It's one thing to give up on '12, which seems to get closer to reality by the day, but we have no idea what's in store for the 14 months before the start of spring training 2013.

Because people are going to bemoan and belittle every little move that isn't the one they want to see. For one thing, I didn't want to make it look like like I was teasing Cespedes and Solar. Then there's the descriptions of the 2 guys, one having modest tools and the other a fastball that peaks in the low 90's with an average curve.

Doubtful. The name of the game is landing young players, not a 32 1st baseman with a career .267/.337/.478/.815 line.

Who can we count on in 2013? Assuming Garza, Byrd, and Marmol are traded at some point, we will have Castro, Dejesus, Soto (possibly), Shark, Cashner, Russell (possibly) and T. Wood. 1B - ?, 2B - Barney (adequate), SS- Castro, 3B - Stewart (?), OF - Soriano, Dejesus, Jackson (?), Sczur (?), Sappelt (?), C- Soto/Castillo/Clevenger, Rotation - Wood, Wells (possibly), McNutt (?), prospect from Garza trade (?), FA/Prospect (?), Bullpen- Russell (possibly), Shark, Cashner, and then a lot of prospects (????????). I'm not punting on 2013, but it sure looks like the FO is. Apparently your crystal ball sees further into the future than mine. Mine hasn't even made it to January yet.

With Marshall gone, Wood probably is the set-up man. I think $2.5-3 with incentives is probably market value for a decent set-up man. You don't pay the man based on a job role he's "earned" by default because the team is being torn apart. The entire point of bringing back Wood when we have a plethora of middle relievers is that he's willing to come back below market value because his is where he wants to pitch. Otherwise, I'd just as soon take our chances with Dolis, Carpenter, Beliveau, Weathers, Mateo, Samardzjia, Cashner or even Corpas or Sonnenstine now that they're there anyway. Throw in 1 or 2 of Russell, Maine, and Gaub and it equals a pretty crowded bullpen. Maybe we can kick Kerry a few 100K to teach the younger guys how to make good use out of a towel.

Colvin was never going to be average. Colvin was and is terrible. His minor league record suggests that he's a 250/280/420 type hitter in the big leagues, and that's what he's been in the big leagues. LeMahieu I think has a chance to be average, but a lot depends on how his defense plays at 2b. I usually gloss over WSR's posts, but holy [expletive]. Colvin with a pretty good shot to be average? FFS. As a 4th/platoon outfielder, he has a decent chance to be decent.

So we trade Garza, a top prospect, another good prospect, and our best remaining lefty pen arm for a lesser package than we would have expected for Garza alone? Let's put this one in the no pile. I think Rizzo > Hutchinson and Perez by a bit, but I would understand if you disagree with that. And the idea of a top prospect is relative to a team. I just don't really believe in McNutt or Ha. I think that they would be better suited for Petco. McNutt seems like he will give up a ton of HR's in wrigley. I agree that I think the Cubs should get more, but I am trying really hard not to look at this with a Cub's bias. Garza alone is now the best starting pitching option available unless someone like Felix Hernandez is put on the block. The package you mentioned, while not 100% awful so long as te 3rd guy is a high ceiling pitcher but we should by no means be throwing in McNut and Ha. To be honest, I'd kick in Russell if I meant a better 3rd player but bias or not there's no reason to have to give up 2 of our best prospects as well. The Yamkees, Red Sox, and Blue Jays are all rivals with a lot of money and a big need for another front end starter, although with Beckett, Lester, an Bucholtz te Red Sox might be just as interested in 2 mid rotation guys, but there's no reason for us to settle. Keep in mind we have no urgency to move Garza and we're trading him to build, not dump.

In the same article: •Center thinks the Padres "desperately" need to acquire a close-to-Major League-ready middle infield prospect. Which gets me back to the deal I mentioned earler: Rizzo + Hudson for Marmol + Barney + $2million (2012) + $4million (2013). Cubs get their 1B, Padres get their young MI, Padres get a good trade chip (Marmol) with a very trade-friendly contract to pick up more prospects. I'm going to need you to stay after class and write Darwin Barney has no trade value on the board 100 times. Maybe Marmol and Junior Lake for Rizzo could be taken seriously, but even then you can forget about the Padres throwing in any extra players. That's absurd. I may be the single biggest Lake supporter on this board, but I'd flip him in a heartbeat to acquire Darwin Barney. (if we didn't already have him, obviously) Barney is a proven league-average 2B who makes absolutely nothing and is under control for 5 more years. If that description sounds kinda familiar, it's pretty close to the one people are using to describe why Theo wanted Travis Wood so badly. There are plenty of GMs that would love to have him. One season is not exactly proven. He has no power and he doesn't walk and while hes great defensively he's not at the Vizquel or Ozzie Smith level that it could carry his career, although in offensively focused day and age I have to wonder if even Ozzie would be as appreciated as he was 20 some years ago. Look, Barney is a guy with a pretty good chance to have a long average career probably back and forth between starting and backup depending where he lands. Lake on the other hand has the potential to be much better, but could also be junk. Seems like that's Theos type of thing. Remember, we traded Colvin and LeMahieu, 2 guys with a pretty good chance at being average for 2 guys that could be far better but could be junk. In fact this entire thread is about acquiring a guy who could be out 1st baseman of the future but could be junk.

Even if we did "punt" this season we wouldn't have to trade solely for 18-20 year olds we wont see for 3-5 years. We should also be looking into some 22-26 year olds that can step in in the next year or. As I've said befor, unlike the A's and Pirates when we rebuild we shouldn't be relying solely on the acquired prospects because we can also afford to sign big name free agents, even if we don't start until next year. I'd be willing to begrudgingly accept 1 punted season but after the I expect the team to at least start shaping up to something watchable.