Little Slide Rooter

Maybe this has been posted somewhere, but any word on what becomes of Zs 2013 salary? I believe it's 18 mil club option with a 9 mil buyout. Can't imagine the club option being picked up, but who's picking up the tab on the BO? If they pick that up its worthwhile in its own.

Does this take into account each team and how they acquired their star players? Smaller market teams like the Brewers, Rays, and Royals are more likely to acquire more of their stars from within and have a higher risk of losing them as FA when the time comes or trading them to bigger market teams when the team control is near an end. Bigger market teams are more likely to get theirs as free agents or trades, often from those small market teams looking to get something in return for their homegrown stars before losing them as FA. However, The Red Sox, Rangers, and Phillies, all big market and 3 of baseballs best the past few years have a pretty even mix of all 3 methods of acquisition.

I thought for a moment by listing him as traded since he technically was, but thought that was ideologically the better fit. Again, the difference in homegrown and traded wasn't really the focus, it was the lack of FA signings showing up on that list. I'd expect you of all people to remember that he was a Cubs top prospect that Jim Hendry gave up on an sent to the Reds for nothing.

I think that they've worked together long enough and have enough mutual respect that that isn't an issue.

It seem to me that what they're doing now is the opposite of what Theo did in Boston, and that's not at all a bad thing in the long run. Back then, he had a ready made core with Manny, Damon, Veritek, Nomar, Pedro, and young Trot Nixon.He then hit a home run on Ortiz, who wasn't as much of a long shot as some think at 1.25 mil, coming off a solid .272/.339/.500 20 HR season in a difficult hitters park. He then plugged his holes with guys like Mueller, Millar, Belhorn, and Lowe before he started going after bigger fish like Schilling, Beckett, and Drew. Here, he doesn't have that core. The only guys who are close to sure things for 2013-2014 are Castro, Jackson, Cashner, Soto or Castillo, and a handfull of relievers. There are a lot of holes there, which he's trying to plug up with young guys like Stewart, Volstad, T. Wood, and Sonnenstine with more likely to follow between now and this time next year. If Brian LaHair does open the season at 1st base, I don't love it, but of Fielder isn't an option, it's not horrible. Give the guy his shot and if he's not thriving by the summer, then start looking into guys like Anderson, Rizzo, Barton, etc. who will likely still be available for about the same price they are now. Anyway, SS(Castro), CF(Jackson), C(Soto/Castillo), most of the pen, and maybe 1 rotation spot(Cashner if he goes back to starting) are set for the future. Depending on who pans out of what we have, we can add 3B(Stewart or Vitters), 2B(Barney, Bianchi, DeWitt-yes, DeWitt), another rotation spot or 2 between (Wood, Volstad, Sonnenstine, McNutt, Whitenack, Struck). Maybe 1st if one of the guys mentioned above or dare I say LaHair work out. We could still use a corner outfielder or 2, and I'd love for Cespedes to be one. Depending who pans out of the many young question marks, that's when they'll have a better idea what long term holes need filling and that's when they'll likely spend the big money on. Personally, I still like Fielder for 1st base, and I do think that we're waiting to see what other teams are bidding before deciding to get in on him, but he's an elite bat which isn't easy to come by and it's not very likely that we produce one ourselves in the next few years.

I would have considered it a very good hire, surely over most of the other options that had been tossed around. Remember, Hoyer is a diciple of Epstein and another highly regarded young executive. He had no payroll to work with in San Diego, and while we may look like the A's now, the money is there and even if it was just Jed making the decisions with nobody to answer to but Ricketts I'd be comfortable with that. Very good hire and high profile hire = not the same thing. Come on David, you know what I mean. When it comes to GMs and executives, how many guys are even considered "high profile"? Epstein, Cashman, Beane? Usually, the high profile tag only comes with results, which all 3 of these guys have achieved. I guess I should have said highly regarded.

When Ricketts hired Theo, he said Theo would be totally in charge of all baseball decisions. That means the buck stops on Theo's desk. I don't remember those words, I remember more that the GM only had to answer to Ricketts himself. Obviously with Epstein as the President of Baseball Ops, that's not exactly true, but I have to assume that Hoyer is somewhat involved. Maybe 1 guys making the deals or picking out the players and the others handling the paper work but none the less, whenever a deals made or not made, it all seems to come down to Theo, at least in the publics perception.

I would have considered it a very good hire, surely over most of the other options that had been tossed around. Remember, Hoyer is a diciple of Epstein and another highly regarded young executive. He had no payroll to work with in San Diego, and while we may look like the A's now, the money is there and even if it was just Jed making the decisions with nobody to answer to but Ricketts I'd be comfortable with that.

I guess now that I've slept on it, I don't love the trade, or even like it but I guess it's not the worst thing in the world. I still think that we should have waited to let him build some more value in the summer and see who bites in June or July, but I don't know how much more of a return we could have ended up with. I still don't like the return, but I highly doubt that it was as quick as: Jed/Theo: OK, we'll pick up 15-16 mil of Big Zs salary, what will you give us Marlins. Chris Volstad Jed/Theo: ALRIGHT, Volstad! I'm sure some degree of discussions have been going on since the initial rumors of the Marlins being interested in Z a few months ago and this is pretty much the best we could get. A young, former top prospect and 2.5 mil. I'd have rather at least Lars Anderson, as Z would have been more than a solid #4 behind lester, Beckett, and Bucholtz for The Red Sox, but who's to say that we didn't try to sell him to them. They didn't want him last summer, they probably don't want him now. As for Volstad, he joins Ian Stewart, Casey Weathers, Travis Wood, Andy Sonnenstine, and Jeff Bianchi as guys who can help the team in the long term, and if not, oh well.

Theo traded Zambrano. Theo traded Marshall. Why isn't Theo going after Fielder? Does Theo really think LaHair is our 1st baseman? Theo dangling Garza. Theo signed Johnson, Corpas, Sonnenstine. Honest question: isn't the GM supposed to have as much of a hand if not more so than the President of Baseball Operations in these types of matters? How many of these transaction were in fact Theo? Hoyer is also a high profile guy, ad lets be honest here, every move they've done so far is a lot more Padres than Red Sox.

an actual vision for the future and not taking on more bad contracts. let's be realistic, the cubs' core was lousy and the only way the cubs were going to be any good in 2012 was to make at least a couple of expensive free agent signings or trade the few good prospects we have for good major league players on other teams. Making the 2012 Cubs winners would have taken Fielder or Pujols, Ramirez and 1 of Wilson or Darvish which would have costed over 50 mil assuming 22-26 mil for Fielder or Pujols, 12 mil for Ramirez, and 16-18 mil for Darvish or Wilson. Also, add in the 4.5 for DeJesus which would be a great addition if we went that direction. Doable considering however much money came off the books from Fukudome(11) Pena(5) Bradley/Silva(?) and Grabow(4.5) and we could have backloaded a bit due to even more coming off the books after 2012 in Z, Demp, and Byrd. None of this mortgages the future. Now in this world, the Z trade would have been more palatable and a rotation of Darvish/Wilson, Garza, Demp, Wood(assuming that trade went down), and Volstad doesn't look half bad. There'd also be room to trade Byrd or Soriano for prospects or cash. Assuming the Stewart trade went down and he could play 2nd, the lineup could be DeJesus, Castro, Ramirez, Fielder, Byrd/Sori, Stewart, Soto, Jackson. Doesn't look bad to me. Bullpen solid with Marmol, Wood, Cashner, Shark, Russell, Carpenter, and Beliveau. Would have been expensive but good and we wouldn't have had to give up any prospects to get there. What would it look like 4 years from now? Who knows but that's where the front office dream team comes in.

I'm not expecting Carlos Zambrano to turn into Ray Halladay but rather be a serviceable pitcher and not act like a moron. When a big part of a guys problem is mental, then it's a lot more likely that they can control it when their future is on the line as opposed to expecting a mid rotation starter to turn Into an ace for a contract year. Then again, I'm pretty sure you knew damn well that's what I meant but you just wanted to get your comment in and that's OK. Personally, I think that all we needed was Luke Scott and a bag of plantain chips and Big Z would be fixed in no time.

So it's just like every other thread but with more activity.

Rex is our quarterback.

i dunno, i'm sure some people expect zambrano could pitch better and increase his trade value during the first 3-4 months, other people were probably just big fans of him, and then many expected a better return if the cubs were eating that much salary (see: logan morrison talk). but it definitely sucks to see kaplan gloating after a victory in his "get rid of the brown guys" crusade. I'll admit the over reaction but it's not unrealistic to have taken the gamble on Z. Keep in mind, with the sure to not be excersised team option for 2013, this is a contract year for Z so he has all the incentive in the world to pitch well and keep his head on straight in a season that could be the difference between a 2-3 year contract and being lucky to get a minor league deal. It's worth the gamble because worst case scenario, Z's bad and crazy and let go in the Summer and all we leave on the table is Chris Volstad and minimal salary relief.

Did Garza get traded and everyone missed it? Not yet but its likely and part of the reason why I think that the Cubs will be watchable again in 2013.

Little nothing trades don't tend to involve 18 million dollar players no matter their situation, but far be it from me to stand between you and your soap box.

1. Ryan Dempster 2. Travis Wood 3. Chris Volstad 4. Randy Wells 5. Andy Sonnenstine 1. David DeJesus RF 2. Starlin Castro SS 3. Marlon Byrd CF 4. Geovany Soto C 5. Ian Stewert 3B 6. Alfonso Soriano LF 7. Brian LaHair 1B 8. Darwin Barney 2B Ooh ooh child, things are gonna get easier... I still think Theo and Jed know what they're doing and The Cubs should be watchable again by 2013, but damn if 2012 isnt going to be depressing

WE REMOVED THE CANCER!!!

the next time you find yourself typing the phrase "some decent prospects" or "a few prospects," try listing some names. proposals like "throw in a few prospects and get logan morrison back" are pointless. I dont know the Marlins farm system but is Matt Dominguez + some equivalent of Dae Eun Rhee or Aaron Kurcz more to your liking? As for us, I'd have been willin to send Zambrano his entire salary, Szczur, and McNutt for Morrison and if they truely were trying to move LoMo for personal reasons, that would have been a sufficient package. If they wanted to throw in Volstad, that would be fine by me.

Manny Ramirez was a hell of a lot better then than Z is. and the red sox gave up two prospects in the deal, and paid ramirez' entire salary the rest of that year. great comparison WSR. And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison. FFS, Manny Ramirez was really really good when he got traded. He was producing like an elite player. There is no comparison. Morrison would be a stretch but I just think we could have done better than what we got. My expectations were either eat a lot of salary and get some decent but not top prospects or eat a smaller amount of salary and get someone like Chris Volstad.

Manny Ramirez was a hell of a lot better then than Z is. and the red sox gave up two prospects in the deal, and paid ramirez' entire salary the rest of that year. great comparison WSR. And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison.

Actually, we can tell you that. You just refuse to believe it even though it's true. Fine.

hey if either of them has a hot april it will give you another late 20ish player to crush on. And if either of them make it out of the minors it will give you another major league player to bitch about.

Would it be that hard to get a Chris Volstad for him at the deadline? It would be if Z lost his mind again or sucked out of the gate. Plus you're probably less likely to get guys to plug into the MLB roster from a contender in July. If they had bet on Z instead of dealing him now I wouldn't have been upset, but I don't understand why one is considered way preferable. Wouldn't you think that it would be worth the gamble that Z can have a good first half and get a better return? It's not like if he sucked and nobody wanted him in July anyone would be thinking dammit, we could have had Volstad.