Little Slide Rooter

So they somehow have convinced many of us that it's worse...than the plethora of terrible things you yourself just listed. Gotcha. I keep reading posts about Theo saying that "things were worse than he thought", "it might take longer than we hoped", etc. Ricketts and Theo are extremely smart and both of them walked into this situation knowing exactly what they were getting into, so I'm saying I'm tired of reading posts saying we might be terrible again next year and Theo should be considered successful if 3 years from now we're still under .500 and some of his prospects are producing at the ML level. Are these things that Theo actually said or people trying to make speculations about what Theo's thinking? I've never heard or read about Theo saying anything along those lines. The bottom line is that it wasn't just hiring Theo. It was an entire front office team, and they didn't assemble this regime so that they could revert back to early-mid 90s. I'll say what I've been saying since the current plan went into action; -Stock up on prospects via draft, trades, and international FA; on the right track. Better than could be expected considering the state of the farm system when they took over -Rack up as many former top prospects/reclamation types as possible in hopes that a few of them stick; Certainly done that, he just hasn't found the diamond he's looking for, though he certainly got Maholm on a reclamation contract and a few months later spun him into our top pitching prospect. -Sign free agents that can not only help now, but in the foreseeable future ...and once he's stocked the farm system as much as he can, and gets a pretty good idea of it's major strengths and weaknesses, THEN they'll bust out the check book to fill the holes with the best players possible, as opposed to just spending on the shiniest toy available regardelss of it's long term fit with the plan. When he took over the Red Sox, he already had a great core to build around, and he then filled in the blanks with cost effective options. Think of this as the opposite; stocking up on cost effective options, and then filling in the blanks with some big names via trade and FA. I expect that between this summer and winter of 2015, some big moves will be made.

In a hypothetical world in which the Cubs are contending in 2013, they could be. But yeah, if we were to trade for Price in the offseason, the chance of us extending Garza would be all that much more slim-nil, especially with Shark, Jackson, and Wood already in the mix as well as prospects.

and a 2nd Shoulderwalk

If he continues on his current pace, he'll be a Top 10 prospect.

As I recall, that draft was full of those overslots; Shoulders, Dunston, and Gretzky to name a few. I think Jensen might have been one. Of course Maples was the big one. There was also another pitcher that we werent able to sign. Rickey something? Then the league put the kibosh on that type of thing.

Shoulders already with a walk. Did I mention I'm really starting to like him. And Vogelbach with a single; I guess I have to wonder if Vogelbach becoming a singles hitter is a good sign; he has a high OBP and BA, so could it be that pitchers are afraid to throw him anything that he can drive, and he's adjusting to them by taking the bad pitches and hitting the good ones for singles rather than just sitting on fastballs and clobbering them when a pitcher is foolish enough to give him one.

You're saying, like, 28 different things with this post. Short version; if The Epstein hiring was a stunt or scam of any kind (which I don't beleive), the guy who hired him is the scammer, not the guy who took the money. When Epstein was hired, people were partying in the streets with visions of him turning [expletive] into gold in a year or 2. Epstein preached patience from the beginning, but people seemed to take Twitter rumors that we were in on every big free agent over his own words.

It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. Even if they were on pace to lose 50 games, you don't sit two of the few players you're counting on in the future so you can punish them and waste playing time on Brent Lillibridge, Brad Nelson, or whomever's taking up space in AAAA.

Depends if they want a guy with big league experience and some degree of success or the higher ceiling guy without.

huh? I take it you disagree with my rankings. It was pretty obvious SCS was saying the idea of a Cubs' "playoff rotation" of any kind is insane, not because of any ranking you made. More so that our chances of having to put togther a playoff rotation than the rotation itself. As far as the best possible 1-4 with our current guys, Tims looks about right, though Garza-Shark-Jax-Villanueva/Wood would be the best. And in a somewhat realistic fantasy land, Price-Garza-Shark-Jackson would be about right.

As much as I'm liking the direction of the farm system, if we're serious about competing in the near future, we're going to nees some sure-thing impact players sprinkled in. The upcoming free agent class doesn't seem to offer that, unless anyone really thinks that the Yanks will let Cano get away. 2 guys who are supposedly on the block are Car-Go and Stanton. Either one would be exactly what we need. The question is what would be the cost? Is there any realistic way to get either without giving up one of our top 3 prospects or Castro? Would; 1 Big league ready-ish CF; Jackson/Sczcur/Lake/Vitters 1 Big League ready-ish pitcher/pitching prospect Wood/Loux; maybe Dolis or Cabrera, but any stock they had seems to be on the way down. 1 of Shoulders or Vogelbach; a raw power guy who could hit 6,000 homers at Coors (or 2 from above group instead) 2 low level/high ceiling pitching prospects; Maples/Wells/Johnson/Blackburn/Underwood 1 low level/high ceiling bat; Torryes/Amaya/Alcantara/Hernandez/Candelerio/Villanueva with a few prospects, say 1 high ceiling/low level and a decent upper level or big league ready coming back our way as well as a few spare parts flying both ways be enough/too much to land that type of big fish?

I can't see how "we're still sub .500 but have a top 10 farm system with several of his draft picks and acquired prospects filtering through and contributing at the big league level, then he still comes off looking pretty good" makes sense. He was hired to a 5-year contract to win a WS (or at least get us to the WS and be a solid, perennial contender). This is the biggest market team in a weak, winnable division and Theo was given complete autonomy. If this team is still below .500 next year, then we need to realize we've been sold some snake oil. "Sold some snake oil?" What? They're not trying to trick or scam anyone. He's getting at Epstein and Co. being viewed as scam artist. A Harold Hill/The Great Oz type. To play devils advocate, if anyone was "selling snake oil" it would be Ricketts. He's the one who jumped through so many hoops to get Epstein as his big signing. Epstein just accepted the un-refuseable offer. Everyone assumed that he'd do pretty much what Jim Hendry would have done; launched buckets of money at Pujols, Ramirez, Darvish, Wilson, and anyone else within range as well as produce our own Pedroia, Lester, Ellsbury, etc. Meanwhile, the fact that Epstein inherited a perenial 90 game winner to build off of didn't seem to register. As I recall, Epstein spent that entire off season preaching that he wabnted to go young, and we probably wouldn't be where we want to be for several years, but fans chose to ignore that, expecting him to Ninja Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder for a 3/75 contract. Again, not his fault. If anything, his chosen route isn't to scam anyone so much as do what Andrew Friedman did; create a team that when all is said and done is 100% his. A monument to himself so to speak. Depending on how the next 2 drafts turn out, whether or not he stays or goes when his contract expires, that's pretty much what he'll have done.

By my count, 19 of the 25 men on the current active roster were either acquired or promoted to the roster by the Epstein/Hoyer regime. It's time they start getting the credit for what's happening. And as we all know, the essence of the Epstein/Hoyer regime currently inhabits A-AA. As hard as it is to stomach for those in demand of instant gratification, by the time we can truly deem them as successes or failures, the time to extend them or let them walk will be drawing near. As I've said before, Epstein's put himself in a great situation. Either A. he brings the Cubs to glory and becomes the Curse Slayer B. leaves them as bad as they were when he found them, but with a much smaller payroll and his reputation allowing him to land another big contract or C. We're not quite where we want to be but have a strong farm system, which is all credited to his regime, and will either be extended, or land a big deal elsewhere. You don't think if he fails here, the bloom will be off the rose a little bit? I think the bloom was beginning to come off at the end in Boston. If this thing totally blows up, I think he's just another guy. It depends on what you view as fail. If he were to put together another high priced Frankenstein's Monster, then that would hurt. But if he were to move on at the end of his contract, and at the time we're still sub .500 but have a top 10 farm system with several of his draft picks and acquired prospects filtering through and contributing at the big league level, then he still comes off looking prett good. I suppose it depends on how he were to leave. If it were ownership making the decision, he may well get the benefit of the doubt that the team was in too sad of a shape, and a lot of people may even give him the "victim of the Cubs" card. However, if ownership wanted to keep him around but be chose to move on, that would look worse for him, and he could be accused of not being willing to finish what he started. We should remember that Theo chose this route. Ricketts pretty much handed him the keys, and rather than going after any of the high profile free agents he opted to level the place and build from the ground.

By my count, 19 of the 25 men on the current active roster were either acquired or promoted to the roster by the Epstein/Hoyer regime. It's time they start getting the credit for what's happening. And as we all know, the essence of the Epstein/Hoyer regime currently inhabits A-AA. As hard as it is to stomach for those in demand of instant gratification, by the time we can truly deem them as successes or failures, the time to extend them or let them walk will be drawing near. As I've said before, Epstein's put himself in a great situation. Either A. he brings the Cubs to glory and becomes the Curse Slayer B. leaves them as bad as they were when he found them, but with a much smaller payroll and his reputation allowing him to land another big contract or C. We're not quite where we want to be but have a strong farm system, which is all credited to his regime, and will either be extended, or land a big deal elsewhere.

So would I. If we traded Vitters right now, we could probably get something similar to him; a one time top prospect who's team is losing patience with him but still young enough that they still have a glimmer of hope to come close to their one time ceiling. Say a Dom Brown, Dellin Betances, or Manny Banuelos. Perhaps a pitching rich system looking to cash one in for a hitting prospect. If not, he'd be a great throw in with a large scale deal.

Petition to re-title this thread "In over his head manager vents, media trolls spin non-story into headline"

I wouldn't say good start so much as heating up after a slow one. Like seeing his OPS up to .842 considering his not so hot start.

Rock Shoulders just chewing up and spitting out Low A. Is Daytona far bahind?

Remember David Cales? I didn't until today.

I figure that around this time next year we should have a pretty clear picture of whether Mr. Epstein is more Moses or Jim Jones. For now, it is what it is.

Must have been on a 10 MPH curveball.

If Soler keeps it up, any chance he hits Tenesse by June?

We have one of these for every other forum, so why not. Anyway, if there's one thing that our farm system is heavy on, it's high ceiling middle infield types all throughout the organization: AAA Watkins AA Lake AA Alcantara AA Torryes A levels Hernandez Amaya Bruno Saunders Penelvar There's also a Short Stop that as signed from the International FA pool. And then, of course Castro and Baez Middle Indielders that can hit a bit are always in demand, and with Castro and Baez both in the long term mix, some of these guys could be very useful trade chips, whether we try and flip one for a pitching prospect or building a package for a veteran impact player, say Car-Go or Stanton. Obviously, none of them would be a centerpiece in a trade for one of these guys unless they were to really explode in 2013-2014, but still would be nice 3rd pieces depending on what else is in the package.

Mine would be Christy Matthewson Walter Johnson Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson As long as we're in fantasy land, may as well make it spectacular.

Just as I began to take note of Stephen Bruno, he Bretts in 7/10 ABs.