Backtobanks

Here's a sequence I daydreamed a few days ago. Dempster for pitching Garza for Olt and Perez Barney, Jackson, Perez, Ha/Szczur for Upton Sign Liriano, trade for another SP(use Dempster haul, Vitters, maybe Soto) DeJesus/Castro/Rizzo/Upton/Soriano/Olt/Soto/Valbuena, Liriano/Samardzija/Trade/Wood/Maholm Mines somewhat more expensive, but with all of the money off the books between the end of last season and the end of this season, and guys like Castro, Rizzo, Wood, and Castill holding down important positions for very cheap, it's doable. Plus, with us off the hook for Marmol after 2013 and Soriano after 2014, we could do some front/mid loading: Now: -Dempster and maybe LaHair for Tolleson and Gould -Gould, Tolleson, B. Jax, and Barney for Justin Upton - unless something wonderful is offered, keep Garza. Work on an extension in the offseason. -Shop Soriano, offering to pick up 95% of the contract. If nobody bites, or we don't get a good enough return, shop DeJesus. -Shop Soto. If nobody bites, NT him. -Shop Marmol: if nobody bites, keep him -trade Baker, Johnson, and Camp for whatever we can get. Won't be much, but contenders will take them. Off season -either re sign Demp for a home town discount (2/22 or 1/12.5 w/ an option for 2014. If the prefer younger, try for McCarthy, A. Sanchez, or Marcum on. 3/40ish deal. -Sign B.J. Upton to a 5/60, with a player opt out afte the 2nd or 3rd year -pick up Maholm's 6 mil option for 2013 -sign Jonathon Sanchez to a Minor league deal w/invite -Bobby Jenks or Brad Lidge to a minor league deal, or incentive laden big league deal -invite various middle relievers and utility guys to ST. Opening day: RF DeJesus, SS Castro, LF J. Upton, 1B Rizzo, CF B. Upton, 3B Stewart/Vitters, C Castillo, 2B Cardenas/Valbuena/Watkins/cheap vet Rotation: 1. Garza 2. Shark 3. Demp/McCarthy/A. Sanchez/Marcum 4. Wood 5. Maholm (J. Sanchez in Iowa) Pen: CL Marmol(unless traded) SU Lidge/Jenks (closer if Marmol traded), Russell, Cabrera, Beliveau, Dolis, J. Jax/Bowden/Parker Bench: Clevenger, Sappelt, Campana,(LaHair if not moved) 2 of Watkins/Valbuena/Cardenas/cheap vet I posted in another topic the other day that if nobody wants Soriano and he continues being productive, we could be competitive next year with extending Garza, re-signing Dempster (offseason), getting lucky with 1-2 prospects, and spending some money wisely on a FA or 2 while still rebuilding.

It all depends on your definition of "good".

Then you don't trade him. I'm not saying we should go all Chuck LaMar with Garza, but when the worst case scenario is that we wind up with Matt Garza on our team, we don't have a lot to lose. Extending Garza, keeping Soriano, re-signing Dempster during the offseason, hope that 1-2 prospects make a decent showing next year, make a decent trade or two, spend some money on a FA or 2, and we could be competing in 2013 while we rebuild for the future.

If nobody wants him, let's hope that his improved play lasts the rest of this year and through 2013. If it does, it could end up being a great non-deal.

Or maybe you could just ignore them, and leave the moderating to the...moderators? your continued existence on this board suggests some failings in that regard. AMEN!

I didn't post that they're expecting Marte to be an upgrade in RF, which I would assume means that he's unavailable too. The point of the original post is that nobody's giving up the top pitchers at the trade deadline without getting back at least one top pitching prospect.

Phil Rogers in today's Tribune wrote that the Pirates have inquired about Hamels, Greinke, Lester, Dempster, and Garza, but Cole, Taillon, and Heredia are not available. I would imagine they don't get many calls returned.

Aside from this, many 3B prospects end up as major league 2B. Man Baez at second is exciting. The Cubs are years away too. Baez was drafted as a SS, but his size and power potential project him to play 3B.

what 3b prospect is that? 2 questions: 1. The FO has just started looking in earnestat minor league players at the lower levels of almost every farm system? 2. What about Baez?

Yes his BBs would go up, but his slugging and RBI total would go way down. I'm sure one reason he's batting 3rd (and not 4th or 5th) is so teams won't pitch around Castro.

$44 of $46 million? There better be a top prospect in that kind of deal, that's absurd to get next to nothing in return for giving Soriano away for $1 million per year for the rest of the contract. Yeah if there isn't a decent prospect involved, he's more valuable as protection for Rizzo in the lineup.

Yeah, while I don't want to pretend that I know it's still a problem for him, I don't really want to say it's definitely not a problem either. I don't think it's all that far-fetched to think he plays it safe and avoids the major media markets. When you're going to make that much money, you might as well play it safe if there are any issues. He seems like the kind of guy who would leave money on the table to play in a place where he's comfortable.

As someone posted many pages ago, Soriano leaving means Rizzo loses his protection in the lineup.

I think Greinke ends up with a city like Atlanta, Baltimore, St. Louis, Milwaukee, etc. and avoids the big-city stress of NY, Chicago, & LA .

This is dumb, even for you. And this defense of Amaro is weird and dumb. I don't think SCS is defending Amaro, just pointing out that there are similarities with the Phillies and what is happened with the Red Sox under Theo. Both GMs came into a good situation, made the teams better, had very high payrolls, and now are suffering with expensive players that are aging and getting injured.

No real surprise, LaHair doesn't fit into our long-term plans and does have some value to other teams needing a LH platoon power bat. Add to that the fact that he's cheap for a long time certainly adds to his value.

There's no way Jed is on the phone with another GM and says "sounds good, let me ask my boss." If that's how it goes, the other GMs would just talk to Theo. Jed knows what's acceptable and what's not or he wouldn't have the job. Of course Jed wouldn't say "sounds good, let me ask my boss." , he would say "I'll get back to you." When Theo was hired, he was given complete autonomy over all baseball operations and decisions. Also, let's not forget that Theo could not leave the Red Sox for a parallel position (GM), which is why he was given the promotional title with the Cubs. Make no mistake about it Theo is in charge of making any serious deals that will be made. That doesn't make a lot of sense. Jed goes into discussions knowing the targets and what he can give up. If something is outside that range, I'm sure he discusses it with Theo. But the GM is not just a glorified secretary. Why doesn't it make sense? Any GM with a prized trade chip would ask for as much as possible and probably not accept immediately anything less, thus calling back later. Looking at TT's post, people know who is making the deals for the Cubs. As for Jed being a "glorified secretary", it's more like he's the assistant GM.

There's no way Jed is on the phone with another GM and says "sounds good, let me ask my boss." If that's how it goes, the other GMs would just talk to Theo. Jed knows what's acceptable and what's not or he wouldn't have the job. Of course Jed wouldn't say "sounds good, let me ask my boss." , he would say "I'll get back to you." When Theo was hired, he was given complete autonomy over all baseball operations and decisions. Also, let's not forget that Theo could not leave the Red Sox for a parallel position (GM), which is why he was given the promotional title with the Cubs. Make no mistake about it Theo is in charge of making any serious deals that will be made.

I wonder how much Theo is actually involved in that? Is it like a "Co-GM" situation? Or do they just meet about things and then Theo lets Jed actually do the trade haggling? Does Jed have to run a big trade through Theo first? Just curious about the logistics. Based on an interview I saw/read earlier this season with Jed Hoyer, he stated that they basically split the duties based upon which one has a better relationship with the GM they are dealing with. It also sounded like they try to build a consensus on decisions. I think it is safe to assume that Theo has final say. So we all agree that Jed will do the initial haggling and then Theo will finalize the deal. Kind of like a car salesman and the boss. I doubt that's how it works. Jed and Theo probably set the acceptable range at the start and modify if necessary but the idea of Jed hemming and hawing before going to the boss for approval is ridiculous. I'm sure Jed wouldn't make a deal without consulting with Theo before finalizing it.

I wonder how much Theo is actually involved in that? Is it like a "Co-GM" situation? Or do they just meet about things and then Theo lets Jed actually do the trade haggling? Does Jed have to run a big trade through Theo first? Just curious about the logistics. Based on an interview I saw/read earlier this season with Jed Hoyer, he stated that they basically split the duties based upon which one has a better relationship with the GM they are dealing with. It also sounded like they try to build a consensus on decisions. I think it is safe to assume that Theo has final say. So we all agree that Jed will do the initial haggling and then Theo will finalize the deal. Kind of like a car salesman and the boss.

Yeah, I remember the Yankees trying to convince everybody to take him in a trade.

I don't think Theo is ready to spend big this offseason, so that eliminates Hamels. and yet theo knows that he has no passable arms and the only way he's going to get them is if he signs them in free agency. signing hamels and/or greinke in the offseason is the best bet to be ready for contention in a year or two. pass on either of them and you're going to have to deplete the farm to do that. you're acting as if they're looking for one-year deals. Garza, Greinke, and Hamels are all the same age (within 2 months). Theo might as well extend Garza instead of spending an extra $50-$60 million on Hamels. Also, the Cubs are nowhere near contention in a year and probably not in two years unless Jackson, Vitters, and a few others come up and hit like Rizzo. I think the 2013/2014 offseason will be when Theo will be spending and/or making a blockbuster deal to help immediately.

I don't think Theo is ready to spend big this offseason, so that eliminates Hamels.

Anybody we get from Garza/Dempster trades has to be better than Volstad and Coleman, even if they're 19 year old pitchers in A ball.

Obviously the future rotation is going to be dependent on what young pitchers we get in the Garza, Dempster, Soriano, Lahair, and Soto trades because there isn't much to look forward to in the minors or free agency. I think somewhere in the future (2-3 years), Theo is going to have to package a bunch of our prospects and make a blockbuster deal for a TOR guy. It's hard to predict the future, but right now things look pretty dismal in the pitching department.