Backtobanks

I hate Williams and Reinsdorf, but I've got to admit somehow Williams gets things done. Don't forget that "horrible system" has produced a bunch of players on the ML roster as well as the trade bait necessary to get the veterans to make a run for the playoffs.

From Phil Rogers in today's Tribune: Soriano + LaHair + Soto + $22 million to the Rays for Carlos Pena or Luke Scott (obviously Scott would be a better option for us) + Chris Archer + Tim Beckham + 2-3 more prospects. Pena/ Scott have expiring contracts after this year. LaHair becomes 1B/DH for Rays. Money was based on receiving Pena, might need to be adjusted if Scott is received instead.

Damn. Wish they'd do Webster and Gould. Hell, if we can't get what we want for Dempster or Garza and nobody wants Soriano, why don't we just keep everybody and make a blockbuster deal for Justin Upton centered around Jackson and Vitters and make a semi-decent run at contending next year. We've been playing pretty good baseball since Rizzo came up and with the same starting rotation plus Upton to help the offense we might surprise a few people. If we're struggling next July, we can still trade Dempster, Garza, et al. for prospects.

the scuttle was looking at pence or victorino for left field, with abreau heading to bench/pinch hitting spot starts. We have a left fielder OPSng in the .800s who just so happens to be one of the top defensive LFs in the league. Apparently. But he would be making $2-$3 million over the next year and a half (after we pick up 90%), so he obviously making too much money. :lol:

You forgot to include Castellanos.

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Why are you thinking there won't be another Paul Maholm on the market this winter? Good point, Tim. The Cubs are going to have gobs of money this winter. Maholm-type guys don't have all the top teams chasing them and don't cost zillions in dollars or years. So if you take a swing-and-a-miss, little lost. And if you take a shot and they turn out, modest-dollar-short-years pitchers are assets that can be turned into young talent that might last into the contending years. Sign em in January, trade em in July. A good way to use money to create long-term young talent from nothing. All that said, Theo does need to field a team. I'd be shocked beyond belief to see him trade all three guys. Yeah, Jed was quoted saying "we'll have a team on the field that we can be proud of after the trade deadline". Trading Garza, Dempster, Maholm, and possibly Soriano, Soto, Baker, Johnson, LaHair, Camp, Russell, and Barney leaves quite a few holes to fill for the rest of this year and 2013.

It could be that the Dodgers got tired of waiting for Theo and decided to move on.

Going to a new league and possibly getting hit hard in the AL East could cost him millions as a FA. except this was about him being traded to boston, which is one of the AL East teams that hits pitchers hard. here's the rankings in OPS of the other AL East teams: Yankees: 1st (.802) Toronto: 9th (.749) Baltimore: 21st (.708) Tampa: 24th (.692) so basically one really good offense, one good offense, and then two lousy offenses. unless he ends up facing the yankees like 5 times in 10 starts, i fail to see how he's going to lose out much. That's true, but you also need to figure in that he doesn't know the AL hitters and that he will be facing other AL teams with the DH. Everything I've seen makes it sound like he prefers staying in the NL. Of course, I suppose he could change his mind if the RS offered him a big contract extension.

Going to a new league and possibly getting hit hard in the AL East could cost him millions as a FA.

I agree with you. I can't believe they haven't gotten the "best offer" from any teams involved in the bidding if he told them that th trade was happening today (or any other date). The only way some team may increase their offer is if one of their rotation guys gets hurt today. Of course if that pitcher who gets injured is Dempster, we're screwed. It's not worth taking taking that chance.

That's what I've been thinking. Is there some reason we have to really be terrible and save money for the next year and a half while we rebuild?

Here's a sequence I daydreamed a few days ago. Dempster for pitching Garza for Olt and Perez Barney, Jackson, Perez, Ha/Szczur for Upton Sign Liriano, trade for another SP(use Dempster haul, Vitters, maybe Soto) DeJesus/Castro/Rizzo/Upton/Soriano/Olt/Soto/Valbuena, Liriano/Samardzija/Trade/Wood/Maholm Mines somewhat more expensive, but with all of the money off the books between the end of last season and the end of this season, and guys like Castro, Rizzo, Wood, and Castill holding down important positions for very cheap, it's doable. Plus, with us off the hook for Marmol after 2013 and Soriano after 2014, we could do some front/mid loading: Now: -Dempster and maybe LaHair for Tolleson and Gould -Gould, Tolleson, B. Jax, and Barney for Justin Upton - unless something wonderful is offered, keep Garza. Work on an extension in the offseason. -Shop Soriano, offering to pick up 95% of the contract. If nobody bites, or we don't get a good enough return, shop DeJesus. -Shop Soto. If nobody bites, NT him. -Shop Marmol: if nobody bites, keep him -trade Baker, Johnson, and Camp for whatever we can get. Won't be much, but contenders will take them. Off season -either re sign Demp for a home town discount (2/22 or 1/12.5 w/ an option for 2014. If the prefer younger, try for McCarthy, A. Sanchez, or Marcum on. 3/40ish deal. -Sign B.J. Upton to a 5/60, with a player opt out afte the 2nd or 3rd year -pick up Maholm's 6 mil option for 2013 -sign Jonathon Sanchez to a Minor league deal w/invite -Bobby Jenks or Brad Lidge to a minor league deal, or incentive laden big league deal -invite various middle relievers and utility guys to ST. Opening day: RF DeJesus, SS Castro, LF J. Upton, 1B Rizzo, CF B. Upton, 3B Stewart/Vitters, C Castillo, 2B Cardenas/Valbuena/Watkins/cheap vet Rotation: 1. Garza 2. Shark 3. Demp/McCarthy/A. Sanchez/Marcum 4. Wood 5. Maholm (J. Sanchez in Iowa) Pen: CL Marmol(unless traded) SU Lidge/Jenks (closer if Marmol traded), Russell, Cabrera, Beliveau, Dolis, J. Jax/Bowden/Parker Bench: Clevenger, Sappelt, Campana,(LaHair if not moved) 2 of Watkins/Valbuena/Cardenas/cheap vet I posted in another topic the other day that if nobody wants Soriano and he continues being productive, we could be competitive next year with extending Garza, re-signing Dempster (offseason), getting lucky with 1-2 prospects, and spending some money wisely on a FA or 2 while still rebuilding.

It all depends on your definition of "good".

Then you don't trade him. I'm not saying we should go all Chuck LaMar with Garza, but when the worst case scenario is that we wind up with Matt Garza on our team, we don't have a lot to lose. Extending Garza, keeping Soriano, re-signing Dempster during the offseason, hope that 1-2 prospects make a decent showing next year, make a decent trade or two, spend some money on a FA or 2, and we could be competing in 2013 while we rebuild for the future.

If nobody wants him, let's hope that his improved play lasts the rest of this year and through 2013. If it does, it could end up being a great non-deal.

Or maybe you could just ignore them, and leave the moderating to the...moderators? your continued existence on this board suggests some failings in that regard. AMEN!

I didn't post that they're expecting Marte to be an upgrade in RF, which I would assume means that he's unavailable too. The point of the original post is that nobody's giving up the top pitchers at the trade deadline without getting back at least one top pitching prospect.

Phil Rogers in today's Tribune wrote that the Pirates have inquired about Hamels, Greinke, Lester, Dempster, and Garza, but Cole, Taillon, and Heredia are not available. I would imagine they don't get many calls returned.

Aside from this, many 3B prospects end up as major league 2B. Man Baez at second is exciting. The Cubs are years away too. Baez was drafted as a SS, but his size and power potential project him to play 3B.

what 3b prospect is that? 2 questions: 1. The FO has just started looking in earnestat minor league players at the lower levels of almost every farm system? 2. What about Baez?

Yes his BBs would go up, but his slugging and RBI total would go way down. I'm sure one reason he's batting 3rd (and not 4th or 5th) is so teams won't pitch around Castro.

$44 of $46 million? There better be a top prospect in that kind of deal, that's absurd to get next to nothing in return for giving Soriano away for $1 million per year for the rest of the contract. Yeah if there isn't a decent prospect involved, he's more valuable as protection for Rizzo in the lineup.

Yeah, while I don't want to pretend that I know it's still a problem for him, I don't really want to say it's definitely not a problem either. I don't think it's all that far-fetched to think he plays it safe and avoids the major media markets. When you're going to make that much money, you might as well play it safe if there are any issues. He seems like the kind of guy who would leave money on the table to play in a place where he's comfortable.

As someone posted many pages ago, Soriano leaving means Rizzo loses his protection in the lineup.