Backtobanks

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought. The part in blue is a post from you in another topic. Everybody you mentioned in the first part was drafted by Hendry except Soler. I'm not saying our system is great, but looking at your post, it certainly doesn't sound like "it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball".

If the Cubs are in such bad shape, I guarantee Theo & Co. wouldn't have jumped at the chance to come here and fail. This is an organization that they viewed as one that could be turned around within a few years (not true of a bottom 5 team). Again it's interesting that this talent-less team has or had players like Marshall (getting multiple good prospects), Cashner (getting Rizzo), Garza (probably getting some team's 2+ top prospects), Dempster (probably getting 1 top prospect and 1 good prospect), Castro - untouchable superstar, Samardzija - untouchable young starter, etc.

How about Samardzija, Barney, Soto, LaHair, Marshall (netted us prospects), Russell, Cashner (Rizzo), Colvin (Stewart), plus the prospects that netted us Garza. Of course Theo won't be counting on Brett Jackson, Vitters, Lake, Baez, McNutt, etc. Another example of a poster not being able to look past the "Hendry hate" (or "Theo adulation") to see the facts. The fact that you're naming guys like Darwin Barney, Bryan LaHair, and two lefty relievers shows the total lack of talent in this organization right now. Not to mention guys like LaHair and Samardzija have (or will have) derived almost all of their value from Theo's decisions (moving Samardzjia to the rotation and putting LaHair at 1B). I don't hate Hendry. I think he was a pretty good evaluator of talent in a vacuum (and a terrific scouting director). He just didn't know how to build a team. Maybe I misread your point about the condition of the team and minor league system when he took over. My point was that the organization in 2003 was in much, much better shape from a talent standpoint than it is now. Samardzija was destined to be a starter when Hendry signed him. Darwin Barney is having an outstanding year. Bryan LaHair was bound to be given a shot at 1B because Baker and Mather aren't ML first basemen. Your comparison of the talent in 2003 and now again points to the difference in ownerships and their thoughts about contending. Hendry (an unknown as a GM) was given orders to buy the players necessary to build a winning team. Theo was given complete autonomy to rebuild by trading off players and rebuilding from scratch.

If your point is that Hendry would have been good if not for injuries, then you really aren't conceding any weaknesses on his part, and thus you shouldn't be listened to. Every GM has injuries, every GM makes several good trades (in ten years! I think I saw FIVE trades listed. Give him a medal) and every GM makes good and bad signings. Hendry's strengths were less and his weaknesses greater than a "good" GM. (And this is not to mention his reactionary attitude toward sabermetrics.) I only listed 5 trades to prove a point, but obviously he made many more. As for the injuries, the Cubs had more than their share including Wood and Prior. There aren't many teams that could absorb the loss of their 2 top pitchers and two of the most dominant pitchers in the league. Hendry had weaknesses which I stated in my post, but far too many posters refuse to admit his strengths. Let's not forget the condition of the team and the minor league system when he took over. As I originally posted, Hendry's situation is completely different than what's going on now. Hopefully, Theo & Co. will get us a World Series Championship. When Hendry took over, he had the best farm system in the game and some of the best young talent in the game (Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Patterson, etc.). Theo started with Starlin Castro. How about Samardzija, Barney, Soto, LaHair, Marshall (netted us prospects), Russell, Cashner (Rizzo), Colvin (Stewart), plus the prospects that netted us Garza. Of course Theo won't be counting on Brett Jackson, Vitters, Lake, Baez, McNutt, etc. Another example of a poster not being able to look past the "Hendry hate" (or "Theo adulation") to see the facts.

If your point is that Hendry would have been good if not for injuries, then you really aren't conceding any weaknesses on his part, and thus you shouldn't be listened to. Every GM has injuries, every GM makes several good trades (in ten years! I think I saw FIVE trades listed. Give him a medal) and every GM makes good and bad signings. Hendry's strengths were less and his weaknesses greater than a "good" GM. (And this is not to mention his reactionary attitude toward sabermetrics.) I only listed 5 trades to prove a point, but obviously he made many more. As for the injuries, the Cubs had more than their share including Wood and Prior. There aren't many teams that could absorb the loss of their 2 top pitchers and two of the most dominant pitchers in the league. Hendry had weaknesses which I stated in my post, but far too many posters refuse to admit his strengths. Let's not forget the condition of the team and the minor league system when he took over. As I originally posted, Hendry's situation is completely different than what's going on now. Hopefully, Theo & Co. will get us a World Series Championship.

Or maybe Bob Nightengale has no damn clue what he's talking about. Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

The discussion kind of went off on a tangent. My point was that for all of the bad things about Hendry, there were quite a few good things. There were many years where he had assembled the best team in the NL Central on paper, but "stuff happens" and they never got to the World Series. Some of that "stuff" certainly included way more than our share of injuries to key players during his tenure.

Tavarez + Dontrelle Willis for Matt Clement and Alfonseca Todd Hundley for Grudzielanck + Karros Bobby Hill + Jose Hernandez for Kenny Lofton + Aramis Ramirez Choi for Derrek Lee A. Gonzalez, Justin Jones, Brendan Harris, F. Beltran for Nomar Garciaparra + Matt Murton

It helped more than that bucket. Hendry basically did what big market GMs do. The Giants and Dodgers, to name a few handed out as much bad money as Hendry in the same time frame, but they're in better shape because they each had a lot of prospects that panned out, and did so big time. And it's not like we didn't seemingly have quality guys through the system in the '06-'07 farm offseason when most of the damage was done, though it was nothing like '00-'03. Some of the Hendry hate gets to the point of absurdity. Hendry was told to spend an ever-increasing amount of money to "buy" a winning team. That's one reason he hired Baker and Piniella. Hendry personally always wanted to develop and play the younger players, but ownership was in a win-now mode. Theo has been given complete autonomy to build (or rebuild) on his own terms. Hendry was basically an unknown when hired, while Theo came with a reputation.

It would take exactly one season to balance it out. Yeah if they went 104-58 in 2014 it would bring them back to .500. Of course that's assuming they only lose 100 this year and they improve by 15 games next year. No one is going to give a rat's behind that Theo's Cubs lost 100 games in 2012 if the Cubs win a World Series while he's here. Hell, just getting to a World Series will help people forget this season. That's a big "if".

I would love for the Cubs to suck for one year and then have all of those wonderful things happen, but I see no evidence that the Cubs are going to be very good next year. Amping up the farm system is great, but right now Rizzo looks like the only "sure thing". Whatever moves they're going to make is most likely jumping into the FA pool and maxing out the payroll again. Finally, as others have posted, putting a "decent" (a.k.a. watchable) team on the field this year would not have maxed out the payroll or excluded amping up the farm system or having plenty of money come off the books for future moves.

It would take exactly one season to balance it out. Yeah if they went 104-58 in 2014 it would bring them back to .500. Of course that's assuming they only lose 100 this year and they improve by 15 games next year.

quote="David"] Yea. I think it was pretty much a non-answer. The article mentioned keeping their options open (trading him), so it was pretty much a non-answer.

It certainly doesn't seem to bother Theo & Co. that the Cubs are headed for a historically bad season. When it's all said and done, managers and front office staff are judged by their record. With the Cubs headed for 100 losses this season, even a 15 game improvement (not likely) for next year puts them at 85 losses. It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

I'm amazed that there are still posters that support what Theo has done this year. I understand those of you that think he will eventually build a contender, but he has made the 2012 Cubs into a laughing stock. There's no excuse for a large market team in a weak division to be this awful. This team is years away from being decent and as Garza, Dempster, and LaHair come back to "normal", we will have very little to trade for 2013 and beyond.

Yeah, it's not like he had the ability to try and improve the team or anything. Poor, poor Theo. The only relevance that this season has to Theo's ultimate plan is the fact that Marmol, Soto, and Byrd were supposed to be useful trade chips, and their suckage threw a wrench in those plans. other than that, pretty much everyone that can be considered a part of the future has done as expected, with the exception of Volstad. Keep suckling. So far, all Theo's done is refused to let himself get sucked into insane bidding wars for Pujols and Fielder. My main problem with sitting out on them despite the supposed available funds is the fact that he didn't use some of it for an all in bid on Darvish and maybe Cespedes, two guys who seemed to epitomize the type of players he was looking for. As for this debacle of a team, he can't be blamed for awful relievers inability to throw strikes and the hitters refusal to bat each other in. I know I sound like one of those religious nuts I've spent my life ridiculing, but we may have to suffer through some [expletive] we don't quite understand, but while I may bitch and moan anout it, I have a ton of faith that these guys are leading us in the right direction. My complaint has always been that these guys might turn it around, but I think it's going to take 4 years when he has the resources to do it in 2 years. For all of the discussion about Pujols, Cespedes, etc., right now the worst signing has been Theo & CO.

No, and most things can be attributed to Ricketts. He's cutting payroll! He's letting the Dodgers be the mid-tier but big market team to make the rise to the top (with Ned Colletti)! He's the reason I've watched three seasons of three different shows this week. That's got to total 24 hours, easy. You do realize that Ricketts offered Epstein a virtually open checkbook and he was the one to chose this direction, right? And complete autonomy, so don't blame anyone but the boy genius.

There's quite a difference between "Theo doesn't want to go past 5 years" and "he won't ever go past 5 years". The next question is whether Theo is ready to spend that much money next year on what could be a mediocre team or is he going "all in" (Upton, Hamels, etc.) to contend next year.

Everything I've read sounded like Theo doesn't want to go past 5 years for a pitcher. With Hamels seeking 7 and plenty of willing teams, I can't see how he ends up a Cub unless one of them changes their stance.

All of this talk about Cespedes' contract that we wouldn't give him and you think the Cubs are going to give Hamels the 7 year/$150 million contract he's seeking.

Either that or our GM ought to be fired.

Who's not fooling themselves? Go back and look at the posters' predictions for this team - most of them had them picked at better than last year's team. This is a bad team and it's going to take a lot of luck, work, and transactions to make them more than mediocre next year.

Bob Brenley would be better. :yahoo:

Hope Castro stays healthy or else we might sign Neifi Perez.

From MLBTR: Detroit could use pitching help or could consider trading for a second baseman or left fielder. The Cubs could solve any or all of their problems.