Backtobanks

68 wins will be the upper limit on projections for next year.

I might have this concern if the Delgado trade hadn't been agreed to. Taking both trades into account, Atlanta simply looked like a desperate team willing to overpay from a position of depth for a major league need. Theo simply took advantage of that. There's also the matter of Maholm pitching very well this season and being under control for another season on a very team friendly deal, while Liriano has struggled over the entirety of the season and is a rental. Often a contending team believes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Vizcaino obviously has a ton of potential, but he is still unproven at the ML level and coming off of TJS. As others have posted, stocking our system with prospects increases the odds that some of them will be successful at the ML level. Meanwhile the Braves know exactly what they got in Maholm and Johnson.

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means. Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: why do you post on here? Do you really believe the Cubs can contend in 2013 assuming they will trade Dempster and Garza (and possibly others)?

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means. Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, that wasn't a joke. Frankly, folks on here that don't understand the direction this organization is heading in baffle me. It is glaringly obvious at this point. Look around baseball right now folks. Please stop saying the Cubs have to blow a load of cheese to get better next season. It simply isn't true. I am not saying to not spend money, but splurging because we haven't done so yet isn't the answer at all. The Cubs will be a better ball club next season, and even better the season after that. It is onward and upward from here. If you can't see that, or think I am cracking a big fat one, then I am sorry. I totally understand the direction the organization is taking, but for anybody to say we will contend in 2013 is ridiculous. Assuming the usual suspects will be traded, there are gaping holes @ 3B, RF, C, #1 & #2 starters, and 2-3 bullpen guys. Everything Theo has said is that he's not going to spend big on FA until we're close and have evaluated the young guys. Now if you're talking about 2014, the team ought to be considerably better. 2013 looks to be a year of testing prospects (Jackson, Vitters, etc.) and dumpster diving while we wait for the next set of prospects to reach the ML. Let's also remember that part of the plan is to let prospects spend the right amount of time in the minors before calling them up.

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means. Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And Theo won the crapshoot twice. Meh.

If Kenny is getting it done, than I have to assume you'll be okay with waiting 5 years for a playoff appearance and making the playoffs twice in 11 years with our front office. As I posted before, I'm certainly not a fan of Williams. As for waiting 5 years for a playoff appearance, we'll have to wait and see if Theo gets us there.

Besides trading Johnson, Baker, and Camp for non-prospects.

I hate Williams and Reinsdorf, but I've got to admit somehow Williams gets things done. Don't forget that "horrible system" has produced a bunch of players on the ML roster as well as the trade bait necessary to get the veterans to make a run for the playoffs.

From Phil Rogers in today's Tribune: Soriano + LaHair + Soto + $22 million to the Rays for Carlos Pena or Luke Scott (obviously Scott would be a better option for us) + Chris Archer + Tim Beckham + 2-3 more prospects. Pena/ Scott have expiring contracts after this year. LaHair becomes 1B/DH for Rays. Money was based on receiving Pena, might need to be adjusted if Scott is received instead.

Damn. Wish they'd do Webster and Gould. Hell, if we can't get what we want for Dempster or Garza and nobody wants Soriano, why don't we just keep everybody and make a blockbuster deal for Justin Upton centered around Jackson and Vitters and make a semi-decent run at contending next year. We've been playing pretty good baseball since Rizzo came up and with the same starting rotation plus Upton to help the offense we might surprise a few people. If we're struggling next July, we can still trade Dempster, Garza, et al. for prospects.

the scuttle was looking at pence or victorino for left field, with abreau heading to bench/pinch hitting spot starts. We have a left fielder OPSng in the .800s who just so happens to be one of the top defensive LFs in the league. Apparently. But he would be making $2-$3 million over the next year and a half (after we pick up 90%), so he obviously making too much money. :lol:

You forgot to include Castellanos.

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Why are you thinking there won't be another Paul Maholm on the market this winter? Good point, Tim. The Cubs are going to have gobs of money this winter. Maholm-type guys don't have all the top teams chasing them and don't cost zillions in dollars or years. So if you take a swing-and-a-miss, little lost. And if you take a shot and they turn out, modest-dollar-short-years pitchers are assets that can be turned into young talent that might last into the contending years. Sign em in January, trade em in July. A good way to use money to create long-term young talent from nothing. All that said, Theo does need to field a team. I'd be shocked beyond belief to see him trade all three guys. Yeah, Jed was quoted saying "we'll have a team on the field that we can be proud of after the trade deadline". Trading Garza, Dempster, Maholm, and possibly Soriano, Soto, Baker, Johnson, LaHair, Camp, Russell, and Barney leaves quite a few holes to fill for the rest of this year and 2013.

It could be that the Dodgers got tired of waiting for Theo and decided to move on.

Going to a new league and possibly getting hit hard in the AL East could cost him millions as a FA. except this was about him being traded to boston, which is one of the AL East teams that hits pitchers hard. here's the rankings in OPS of the other AL East teams: Yankees: 1st (.802) Toronto: 9th (.749) Baltimore: 21st (.708) Tampa: 24th (.692) so basically one really good offense, one good offense, and then two lousy offenses. unless he ends up facing the yankees like 5 times in 10 starts, i fail to see how he's going to lose out much. That's true, but you also need to figure in that he doesn't know the AL hitters and that he will be facing other AL teams with the DH. Everything I've seen makes it sound like he prefers staying in the NL. Of course, I suppose he could change his mind if the RS offered him a big contract extension.

Going to a new league and possibly getting hit hard in the AL East could cost him millions as a FA.

I agree with you. I can't believe they haven't gotten the "best offer" from any teams involved in the bidding if he told them that th trade was happening today (or any other date). The only way some team may increase their offer is if one of their rotation guys gets hurt today. Of course if that pitcher who gets injured is Dempster, we're screwed. It's not worth taking taking that chance.

That's what I've been thinking. Is there some reason we have to really be terrible and save money for the next year and a half while we rebuild?

Here's a sequence I daydreamed a few days ago. Dempster for pitching Garza for Olt and Perez Barney, Jackson, Perez, Ha/Szczur for Upton Sign Liriano, trade for another SP(use Dempster haul, Vitters, maybe Soto) DeJesus/Castro/Rizzo/Upton/Soriano/Olt/Soto/Valbuena, Liriano/Samardzija/Trade/Wood/Maholm Mines somewhat more expensive, but with all of the money off the books between the end of last season and the end of this season, and guys like Castro, Rizzo, Wood, and Castill holding down important positions for very cheap, it's doable. Plus, with us off the hook for Marmol after 2013 and Soriano after 2014, we could do some front/mid loading: Now: -Dempster and maybe LaHair for Tolleson and Gould -Gould, Tolleson, B. Jax, and Barney for Justin Upton - unless something wonderful is offered, keep Garza. Work on an extension in the offseason. -Shop Soriano, offering to pick up 95% of the contract. If nobody bites, or we don't get a good enough return, shop DeJesus. -Shop Soto. If nobody bites, NT him. -Shop Marmol: if nobody bites, keep him -trade Baker, Johnson, and Camp for whatever we can get. Won't be much, but contenders will take them. Off season -either re sign Demp for a home town discount (2/22 or 1/12.5 w/ an option for 2014. If the prefer younger, try for McCarthy, A. Sanchez, or Marcum on. 3/40ish deal. -Sign B.J. Upton to a 5/60, with a player opt out afte the 2nd or 3rd year -pick up Maholm's 6 mil option for 2013 -sign Jonathon Sanchez to a Minor league deal w/invite -Bobby Jenks or Brad Lidge to a minor league deal, or incentive laden big league deal -invite various middle relievers and utility guys to ST. Opening day: RF DeJesus, SS Castro, LF J. Upton, 1B Rizzo, CF B. Upton, 3B Stewart/Vitters, C Castillo, 2B Cardenas/Valbuena/Watkins/cheap vet Rotation: 1. Garza 2. Shark 3. Demp/McCarthy/A. Sanchez/Marcum 4. Wood 5. Maholm (J. Sanchez in Iowa) Pen: CL Marmol(unless traded) SU Lidge/Jenks (closer if Marmol traded), Russell, Cabrera, Beliveau, Dolis, J. Jax/Bowden/Parker Bench: Clevenger, Sappelt, Campana,(LaHair if not moved) 2 of Watkins/Valbuena/Cardenas/cheap vet I posted in another topic the other day that if nobody wants Soriano and he continues being productive, we could be competitive next year with extending Garza, re-signing Dempster (offseason), getting lucky with 1-2 prospects, and spending some money wisely on a FA or 2 while still rebuilding.

It all depends on your definition of "good".

Then you don't trade him. I'm not saying we should go all Chuck LaMar with Garza, but when the worst case scenario is that we wind up with Matt Garza on our team, we don't have a lot to lose. Extending Garza, keeping Soriano, re-signing Dempster during the offseason, hope that 1-2 prospects make a decent showing next year, make a decent trade or two, spend some money on a FA or 2, and we could be competing in 2013 while we rebuild for the future.

If nobody wants him, let's hope that his improved play lasts the rest of this year and through 2013. If it does, it could end up being a great non-deal.

Or maybe you could just ignore them, and leave the moderating to the...moderators? your continued existence on this board suggests some failings in that regard. AMEN!