Backtobanks

I'm still hard at work trying to get us a SS. The Pirates are trying to restock their minor league system and are upset that Xavier Nady doesn't seem to have the trade value that they had hoped. How about we help them out with with this 3-way deal: Padres get: Xavier Nady, Jack Wilson (from Pirates) Fuld/Patterson (from Cubs) Cubs get: Greene, Hairston (from Padres) Pirates get: Theriot, Fontenot, Fuld/Patterson, Veal (from Cubs) I tried not to use any of the players mentioned in the Roberts trade (Gallagher, Marshall, Cedeno). Roberts Fukudome DLee ARam Soriano Soto Greene Pie =D>

Don't kid yourself about "3 B prospects". They were 3 of the top 8 in the Sox farm system. Being 3 of of the best in a bad bunch doesn't make them blue chippers. And a .251 hitter isn't ARod either. Swisher is a good acquisition by the White Sox with very good power numbers for a CF. If he moves to LF, RF, or 1B, his numbers are okay but not great. As you (and others) have pointed out, he is under team control at a fair price for several years which makes this a good deal.

As far as I can tell, the bottom line is that most of us would like Roberts as our 2B because he would be an upgrade (marginal, modest, or significant) over DeRosa. The problem gets to be what package should you send to the Orioles to justify this marginal, modest, or significant upgrade.

DeRosa has been very consistent statistically the last two years as a starter which is why many of us think he can repeat his numbers from 2006-2007 ( .295, .374, .438, .802). Of course his numbers fall when you count the years he was a utility IF and not getting regular playing time. Also, I wish all of you posters out there who hint that DeRosa will get significant playing time at SS would realize that the Cubs have no plans for him at SS. They have stated that Theriot is the starter and they're looking for a sub SS who can bat left-handed (Cintron?). As for DeRosa strengthening the bench, we can find a right-handed pinch hitter for a lot less than Marshall, Gallagher, and Cedeno.

I still think the phrase "marginal upgrade" is pretty accurate. Looking at the stats, the only clear cut advantages that Roberts has is more speed and switch hitting. If you look at the last two years for DeRosa (when he was a starter), his stats are much better than Roberts' career averages (except for stolen bases). Roberts career avg: 10 hr, 61 rbi, .281, .351, .409, .760 DeRosa (as a starter): 12 hr, 73 rbi, .295, .374, .438, .802 I'd rather have Roberts but again the stats aren't overwhelming, so we shouldn't give up 4 players for him.

Don't kid yourself about "3 B prospects". They were 3 of the top 8 in the Sox farm system.

"To me, Roberts over DeRosa in itself is more than a marginal upgrade. Couple it with the fact that you either have DeRosa taking the bench ABs away from the likes of Fontenot and others or you're flipping DeRosa for another SP (i.e. Burnett), and it's a clear cut upgrade." I agree that if you are going to flip DeRosa for someone like Burnett, then I don't have a problem with the Roberts deal. The problem is that the latest rumors have a lot of our trade bait, that might be packaged with DeRosa, going for the upgrade (marginal or not) at 2B.

These latest rumors being kicked around (Gallagher, Cedeno, Marshall, and Fuld for Roberts or add Murton and receive Payton) are getting ridiculous. (Warning - If the Cubs get Payton, there goes Pie's playing time.) I would love to get Roberts, but the upgrade from DeRosa would be minimal. I still insist that trading that many players could get us Greene, Peralta, Furcal, or a good starting pitcher, which would help more than Roberts. If some of these rumors are true, Hendry must be preparing for a job in Baltimore with his former boss.

Today's Tribune is shooting down this rumor. For a minute there I thought Kenny Williams was having a moment of clarity about the Sox contending in 2008. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Everybody always mentions that Murton would be Beane's kind of player. I wonder about Murton being included in a package for Blanton.

I wonder if this deal would be expanded somehow to include Crede and Gary Mathews Jr. The Sox could move Swisher to 1B and Mathews takes over in CF with younger players (Kendrick, Santana ?) coming to the Sox. A deal like this could be beneficial to both teams by clearing some surplus players and adding some youth for the Sox.

Those aren't the packages offered for Bedard, but some of the names mentioned in different packages offered for Bedard. As for Bedard being better than Buerhle, the statistics are reasonably close, but the most telling statistic is innings pitched. Buerhle averages 70 more innings pitched per season. Since both pitchers are the aces of their teams, having your best pitcher on the mound for an extra 70 innings a season is significant. In other words, Buerhle pitches 43% more innings per season. General managers give a ton more weight to the last season or two when looking at trades than they do career marks. In those two years, Buerhle has only pitched 26 more innings combined than Bedard has. Their statistics are not similar at all if you look at the last year, or the last two years combined (any more than that and Bedard was still trying to break into the league). Plus, Bedard is coming off his career year right now. His value might not be that much higher than Beurhle's on a normal basis, but it's artificially higher right now coming off his career year. Finally, the huge strikeout total this year for Bedard adds value as GM's love high K totals. Some team will overpay for Bedard this offseason coming off of his career year. His value should be higher than Buerhle's (Buerhle's inconsistency costs him, and Bedard should slide from his career year but not put up any years even close to Buerhle's 2006), but right now it's much, much higher. I guess we'll never know since Williams gave Buerhle a NTC, but I still think if Buerhle's name was out there, you would see the phone lines light up with offers. When you see the offers that many GMs make for a mediocre "innings eater", I can only imagine what the offers would be for a #1 starter that averages 230 innings per year.

Those aren't the packages offered for Bedard, but some of the names mentioned in different packages offered for Bedard. As for Bedard being better than Buerhle, the statistics are reasonably close, but the most telling statistic is innings pitched. Buerhle averages 70 more innings pitched per season. Since both pitchers are the aces of their teams, having your best pitcher on the mound for an extra 70 innings a season is significant. In other words, Buerhle pitches 43% more innings per season.

Depending on what they get in return, this would be a very smart move for the White Sox. They need to realize that they are not contenders for 2008.

Then I ask those people: what is to stop Williams from turning around and flipping Swisher for a better package in two years if that's the case? He's under contract for so long these arguments don't hold water. Williams can flip Swisher in 2 years for a better package, but in the meantime the Sox will finish 3rd or 4th with Swisher. In 2 years, the package they will have to get for Swisher will have to replace Thome, Dye, Vasquez, Cabrera, and an aging Konerko. As Phil Rogers (Yuch!) pointed out, the Swisher deal is great if you are contending in 2008 or you have a deep minor league system. Neither of those applies to the White Sox.

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone. that's insane. or you and i have different definitions of "cornerstone." May I suggest you look at some of the offers the Orioles are considering for Bedard and tell me the White Sox couldn't get the same offer (or better) for Buerhle. why would they get a better offer for buerhle? i haven't seen any offers for bedard that include 2-3 cornerstone prospects. feel free to throw a few at me. The rumors that I have seen have mentioned these names: Seattle: Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, Wladamir Balentin, Young Chin-Chen,Tillman, Sherrill Cincinati: Joey Votto, Homer Bailey, Johnny Cueto Dodgers: Kemp, Broxton, Kershaw, Meloan,Hu, LaRoche, McDonald Mets: Gomez, Heilman, Humber I think you can find a package there that would include 2-3 cornerstone prospects. Buerhle is a better pitcher than Bedard and would probably bring in a few more interested teams.

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone. that's insane. or you and i have different definitions of "cornerstone." May I suggest you look at some of the offers the Orioles are considering for Bedard and tell me the White Sox couldn't get the same offer (or better) for Buerhle.

Assuming the Roberts deal happens, I would think that before the Cubs would get involved with trading for a pitcher (Blanton, Nathan, Street,etc.) Hendry would have to reload with prospects by trading someone like Marquis or Dempster. I suppose this kind of deal might happen in spring training when teams have a better idea of their strengths and weaknesses.

While Blanton and Street might be very good additions, they are not necessarily positions of need for the Cubs. The first priority seems to be getting Roberts and that would take some of the prospects that would go to Oakland for one of their pitchers. After using Gallagher, Murton, and Patterson (as rumored), Beane would have to take lower level prospects (Colvin, Veal, etc.)

Buerhle could have gotten them 2-3 cornerstone prospects alone. Konerko would get them probably 2 more. Dye might get you a top AA prospect.

If Roberts is playing 2B, then DeRosa won't be in the lineup.

He had his chance to trade Dye and didn't. Hes committed to his players and I'm guessing has the edict from above that they are not going to be rebuilding so soon after a WS Ring (even though thats what they should be doing). Crede is going to go before opening day for sure, but thats not going to get him much. He is doing what sooooo many teams do that they shouldn't, meander in the middle. Imagine if Kenny didn't resign all those players and give them no-trade contracts. Think about the prospects he could get for Buerhle, Konerko, Dye, Crede, Vasquez, etc. They should have traded Garland for prospects (Aybar & Wood?) With luck, they have a shot at 3rd place in 2008 and no farm system to replace all of their aging players. Look at the offers that the Orioles are getting for Bedard and imagine putting Buerhle's name out there. Think about what the Angels would offer for Konerko. The Swisher trade wasn't bad if you have a competitive team for 2008, but the Sox don't.

Just goes to show you that we shouldn't be too quick to say a player (Greene, Peralta) is unavailable. Swisher was perfect for the A's (young, cheap, high OBP, etc) and they traded him for the right package. As many posters have written........no player should be considered untouchable, it's just a matter of getting the right players in return.

From MLBtrade rumors.com: Pirates could still trade SS Wilson? Though Jack Wilson will be back to begin the 2008 season with the Pirates, don't mistake that for believing that we have heard the last of his name in the trade rumor mill. With shortstop prospect Brian Bixler getting closer to being Major League-ready and Wilson's price tag ready to increase again next season, Wilson is likely to be seen as expendable. I wouldn't be surprised to hear Wilson's name floating around as early as the July 31 trading deadline this year. Depending on the Pirates' position in the standings, Bixler's progress and the demand for a veteran shortstop, Wilson could be highly sought after and/or shopped. -- PittsburghPirates.com

In the extremely unlikely event you can make that happen, do it. That's about the way I feel. Of course I'd love to have Greene or Peralta more than Roberts. San Diego and Cleveland are going to demand a lot more talent than what is being offered in the Roberts deal though. The only reason the Cubs can get Roberts for that price is that Baltimore can afford to play all 3 players and see if they develop. That adds value to all of them, while in San Diego and Cleveland they'd be role players and only 1-2 of them might have a chance to develop. These are the players on the Cubs that I consider trade bait: Murton, Marshall, Gallagher, Pignatello, Cotts, Marquis, Dempster, Patterson, Cedeno, Veal, Fox, and whoever else I forgot. We might have to overpay or get a third team involved (see "Rumblings about Snell's availability"), but I can't believe Hendry can't put a package together to interest SD, Cleveland, or a third team in a 3-way trade.