Backtobanks

For a small market team rebuilding for 2015 it would be a successful offseason. I expect the Cubs to contend by 2013 which means you had better sign/trade for a few impact players this offseason. Don't forget that there are plenty of minor league top 40 prospects who don't make it in the ML.

From MLBTR (The Newberg Report): And here’s the bigger point: Texas could trade Matt Harrison, Ramirez, Moreland, Leonys Martin, and Jordan Akins to the Cubs for Garza and Sean Marshall and survive it both at the big league level and on the farm.

I don't know some of these prospects from other teams as well as some of you, but trading Garza ought to get us a few prospects without questions being raised about them.

Can't blame him with St. Louis and Milwaukee getting weaker. And quite possibly the Cubs. I'm sure Jocketty is afraid of our 70 win juggernaut. Didn't Latos have decreased velocity last year after having a big innings jump in 2009? Overall, he seems like a perfect candidate to get Dusty'd. With the Brewers, Cards, and Cubs (possibly) all weaker and the Pirates and Astros playing as usual, the Reds should have an easy time in the NL Central. That's why I'm hoping our FO hasn't kissed off 2012 while looking long term. The Reds are good, but they still have Dusty.

Can't blame him with St. Louis and Milwaukee getting weaker. And quite possibly the Cubs.

Alonso can't be any worse than Blanks in LF. I think they move Guzman and Blanks and keep Alonso, though flipping Alonso might be beneficial while his perceived value is high I don't know how bad Blanks is in LF, but Alonso is terrible in the OF.

Actually it's pretty easy to predict 2012 for the Cubs, especially if they don't sign a FA or 2 or make a pretty big trade pretty soon.

It's fine that we are going to be kept in the dark as long as there will be some desired players appearing out of nowhere, but you must admit he must keep his plans pretty secret because the speculation is that the Cubs are headed for a terrible season.

The problem is, if we make no attempt to improve the team substantially this year and just sign pointless filler, it makes it much, much harder to put anything more than a mediocre team on the field for 2013. Sure, multiple elite pitchers set to hit the market next year actually could and we might be able to sign two of them, and we might be able to find a better than mediocre first base option next offseason, and might be able to acquire said player at a reasonable cost, but all of that happening just right is really slim. Thus, if we put off making the team noticeably better this year, we delay the point in time that we actually become a good team again by at least a season and maybe more if things don't break just right for us in FA/trades. That could be Theo/Hoyer's plan, but I would hope they were smarter than that. I've been posting about the "dumpster diving" approach of Theo and Jed, but everybody has been so enamored by the brillance of Theo that nobody is listening. I had high expectations for the new FO to build a winner in a reasonable amount of time. If they're looking for 2015, then they are failures in my book. My expectations were a solid season in 2012 (especially with Pujols and possibly Fielder out of the division) and a consistent contender starting in 2013.

And that would be... Somebody needs to tell Jed that there's money to spend.

Let me get this straight: Ricketts buys a valuable piece of property and Theo buys a mansion while Jed is looking at Varitek, Wakefield, Barton, Scott, etc. Something is wrong with this picture.

yep

I feel really old, but unfortunately it has nothing to do with Angel Guzman turning 30. :lol:

He did show a lot of potential for the little bit of pitching we got out of him between injuries.

Theo just cancelled the Jeff Stevens for Bryce Harper trade out of respect for your opinion. :lol:

You will notice that Alonzo has been the target of many of my trade proposals. I think he's a younger (and thinner) Fielder. A top ten prospect instead of Heisey would be fine, but I agree with TT that Leake isn't a front end starter but a solid rotation guy for many years. Instead of prospects (from other rumors about a Garza trade), we would be getting at least 2 young players that could help starting next year. Of course, the only down side is that Garza would be in our division.

Garza to the Reds for Alonzo, Leake, and Heisey.

I agree with you to an extent, but this team is at the point where they need an elite bat or 2 to have any hopes for the next 3-4 years. I like the idea of taking chances on the Ian Stewarts and Daric Bartons of the world, but at some,point you need a solid foundation to build upon. Our farm system is almost built to produce role players to be used as pieces to build around bigger guys to who would be aquired through trade or free agency. If we dont end up paying for Fielder, we'll have to pay for somebody, and I don't think that another Prince Fielde and certainly not another Albert Pujols will be hitting the market anybtime soon. If they do, they'll be just as expensive and there will be reasons not to give them what they're expected to get, however, there will always be someone willing to give it to them. Unless we want to watch Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson surrounded by various incarnations of Marlon Byrd, David DeJesus, and Jeff Baker until we can finally produce our own superstars we'll need to start adding some top players, and those aren't just going to fall into our lap for nothing. Exactly my sentiments. All of this "bargain hunting" is starting to piss me off. Unless someone can guarantee that we will win the bidding wars on Darvish, Cespedes, Soler, etc., it's time to start building a decent team for 2012 and a winner in 2013. As many holes as there are for 2012, there are more holes for 2013 unless all of our top prospects overreach their potential this year. Your comment about surrounding Castro and Jackson with mediocrity is based on the fact that Jackson is going to be a solid ML player, which isn't a sure thing.

Are there really that many young players on the Reds that can get significantly better? There could be a few marginal improvements (which would still make them a better team), but Votto, Cueto, Leake, Bruce have all been about as good as they're going to get at this point - with maybe Cueto getting a little better. Alonso is stuck on the bench until Votto is traded, Dusty probably broke Volquez, Bailey's an enigma (hard to tell what he'll do going forward), and I'm not much of a Drew Stubbs fan. They could get a big boost from moving Chapman to the rotation, but I'm not sure Dusty's open to doing that and even if he does, there's the concern over how big a jump he can make in innings. Travis Wood could also help them out if he gets better. We keep hearing about how the Reds are going to be really good when all these great young players develop, but that's been the refrain for about 5 years now. This could be the year they do it, but I still don't see them being a good bet to be better than mid-80s in wins and I think that's the area the Cubs can reach if they don't go with the 3-5 year rebuilding plan. As for the pursuit of Prince/Darvish, I think the weak division should make the Cubs a bit more aggressive in pursuing both. They shouldn't dole out silly contracts, but I think they should be a bit more open to overpaying a little than they may have been before. For instance, if Theo/Hoyer feel comfortable going 5 years with Prince, but it'll take 6 to get him to sign, I think the weak division and the very real shot to win now should get them to do that. But if Theo/Hoyer feel comfortable going 5 years and Prince is looking for 8, I don't think you do that. Same with Darvish. I would go a little past my comfort level because of the weak division, but I wouldn't give out silly contracts. Let's be honest, any "name" FA for the next 5 years is going to be overpaid. Theo/Hoyer need to decide who their priorities are in this year's crop of FAs and pay what they have to pay (without going into Soriano country) to begin the process. Finding value in a player is only going to build a winner if all of our prospects develop into stars (not likely).

I'm holding out for Dimitri Young. He's coming back after losing 70 pounds. I would assume he would be cheap and wouldn't demand 8-10 years. :yahoo:

I agree with your assessment, but my thought was that the WS would get Alonzo with the thought of trading him to a team needing a 1B (Cubs) because of their glut of 1B/DH candidates.

Good to know I'm back on your radar. I was beginning to feel neglected. Are Erik, Davearm and Hollansdsworths Mug on vacation? Still, if I make I trade proposal I acknowledge that it's not likely but everyone involve gets something of value. Never have I made a suggestion in which the other team involved seemingly go out of the way to help the Cubs while they acquire our spare parts. You mean like this one: Alternately, in honor of B2B, what if: Cubs get Headley Stewart Padres get Russell Seth Smith(they're reportedly shopping him) 1 good Cubs prospect, not Szczur, Jackson, or McNutt and ideally not Vitters. Rockies get Colvin or DeWitt LeMahieu (I'd prefer keep him and send them Colvin and DeWitt but if they're giving up Stewart and Smith in the deal I doubt they'd bite) Maine Hudson We'd be giving up 1 solid-good LH reliever or spot starter if your manager is an idiot, 1 potentially decent LH reliever, 1 good prospect, 1 guy who could be non tendered, and a young guy with a decent ceiling who would be made up for by the guys we're getting. Maybe we could even get a Padres prospect or Kyle Blanks out of the deal since the Padres seem to actually be getting the best take out of the deal. That trade proposal ranks right up there with any of mine. Getting Headley and Stewart while giving up Russell, Colvin/Dewitt, DJ, Maine, and a prospect. Nope the only guy with any actual value in this deal that we get is Headley. Stewart was a non tender candidate to begin with. We got him for Colvin and LeMahieu and got another decent prospect. Depending on Headleys actual value, which is debateable, its not unrealistic to think that he could be had for Russell, whom the Padres had expressed interest at the time I proposed this, and remember it clearly says one good prospect, which could be somewhere along the lines of Lake, Castillo, or Struck and would consider Vitters if wed get something else in return and then kick in DeWitt and Maine or another middling reliever. Remember we have no idea what the Padres would want for Headley. He has solid road splits though not much power but overall, he's far from a difference maker. Now as 2 separate transactions, these are far from unreasonable. I only brought it up as a 3 team because the Rockies are shopping Smith and the Padres Hudson. I get a lot of ribbing about the trade proposals, but any trade (especially involving veterans and prospects) ends up being criticized by one side or the other. Obviously the reason is that the veteran has a known value while the prospects have a perceived value. While there are a few "sure thing" prospects, the bottom line is that they still need to prove their value. Of course proposing a 3-way trade increases the chances of 1 team getting the "best" deal and 1 team getting screwed. I do think many NSBB posters overvalue other teams' prospects and devalue our players when it comes to lining up with a trade partner. That being said, I wouldn't trade Garza for anything less than a king's ransom.

They haven't traded anybody of value yet. Listening to offers is different than trading. True, but I was just comparing in my mind the new front office compared to Jim Hendry. I know they haven't traded anybody of value yet. But I have confidence they are going to beable to build the Cubs much better than Hendry ever did. I'm not saying you trade value as soon as you get it. I'm just happy they realize that never parting with anybody, trading prospects while they still have value, not just doing a yearly overpaid veteran bandaide free agency splurge. These are the types of things I feel Theo and Hoyer will do much better than Jim Hendry. They've already done much better in just their short time. They got 2 extra draft picks by offering arb to guys the knew probably wouldn't be back. I don't think I can remember Hendry ever offering anyone arbitration. I have more confidence in the new FO than Hendry, but I think we have to wait until they really do something before he heap on the praise. l get excited during the offseason too, but I want to see the results on the field starting with this year. As others have pointed out, the NL Central has taken quite a hit (assuming Fielder leaves) and there's no reason why we can't contend this year. Waiting for 2013 is great, but it gives the other teams time to rebound too.

Good to know I'm back on your radar. I was beginning to feel neglected. Are Erik, Davearm and Hollansdsworths Mug on vacation? Still, if I make I trade proposal I acknowledge that it's not likely but everyone involve gets something of value. Never have I made a suggestion in which the other team involved seemingly go out of the way to help the Cubs while they acquire our spare parts. You mean like this one: Alternately, in honor of B2B, what if: Cubs get Headley Stewart Padres get Russell Seth Smith(they're reportedly shopping him) 1 good Cubs prospect, not Szczur, Jackson, or McNutt and ideally not Vitters. Rockies get Colvin or DeWitt LeMahieu (I'd prefer keep him and send them Colvin and DeWitt but if they're giving up Stewart and Smith in the deal I doubt they'd bite) Maine Hudson We'd be giving up 1 solid-good LH reliever or spot starter if your manager is an idiot, 1 potentially decent LH reliever, 1 good prospect, 1 guy who could be non tendered, and a young guy with a decent ceiling who would be made up for by the guys we're getting. Maybe we could even get a Padres prospect or Kyle Blanks out of the deal since the Padres seem to actually be getting the best take out of the deal. That trade proposal ranks right up there with any of mine. Getting Headley and Stewart while giving up Russell, Colvin/Dewitt, DJ, Maine, and a prospect.

This was the thought that came to me. The division was already looking very weakened with Pujols and Prince both leaving it. Now with Braun out for 50 games, the Brewers (who I consider the only actual good team in the division) may well not be able to reach that 90 win mark. This makes it that much more possible for the Cubs to contend in 2012 and that much more important that we don't engage in a 3-5 year unnecessary rebuilding process. This season could likely be a huge turning point for the division. How to the Cardinals move on post Pujols? Do the Cubs try to win now with Fielder and a few other teams? The Reds could really use a frontline starter and certainly have the chips to get one with Votto or Alonzo, and even then how good are they really? The Brewers could be the favorites, but if they dont like the way things are going by July they can really help their future by moving Greinke, Marcum, K Rod, and Hart. The Phillies are the league favs once again but the rest of the NL doesn't have anything else awe inspiring. If we land Fielder and get good seasons out of Zambrano, Soto, Stewart, DeJesus, and whoever we keep of Byrd and Soriano there's no reason we can't contend. Im not saying we have a 95 game winner in our hands, but especially with the 2 added playoff spots(I think that starts this coming season) it should be an interesting sesason. We could use a front line starter but if we don't get one now perhaps we can in the summer if we contend. People also underestimate the fact that taking Pujols and Fielder out of their lineups gives teams a chance to pitch around players like Holliday and Braun. Having Braun out of the lineup really hurts the Brewers (assuming they lose Fielder).