In the baseball world. Using 3-year splits, do you know how many 2B have put an OPS over .800 besides Roberts? Utley, Kent, Cano, and Polanco (Hudson doesn't have the 2005 to qualify, I think from injury, but he should be there). There are other young guys without 3 years that project over .800 in 2008 such as Johnson, Uggla, and Pedroia. Utley and his .900+ OPS is in a tier by himself. Then you have a 6-10 guys who might give you .800+, which should be considered plus production for that position. In the baseball world a guy that gives you plus production at a position and still close enough to age 30 to be relevant has value. Whether your personal baseball beliefs include steals or not, many in the baseball world tack a 50+ steals rider onto an .800+ OPS as additional value. Honestly, I don't get the problem, unless you've been playing too much PS3. 4 players is a lot only if you consider 'proven' MLB numbers in the package. 4 players is not a lot if all would qualify as unproven talent and none qualify as can't miss prospects, and in this case Murton, Cedeno, Gallagher, and one B prospect constitutes a package of unproven every day talent and it does not include a can't miss prospect. Take out Roberts "roid" year of 2005 which his OPS was .902 and he's not in that .800 OPS club either. In fact, if you look at the last 2 years of production and we are focusing on OPS, DeRosa's avg OPS was .802, whereas Roberts' was .783. I'm not going to argue how valuable Roberts is to ANY team, but I will argue just how much of an upgrade he is to THIS team. I realize that he's an incredible leadoff man, and can steal bases, which the Cubs do need, but not in a 2B. If he played SS, do what it takes to get him. First, welcome to the board. Second, the smack-down. Unfortunately for you, you cannot simply choose to remove a year of player's career to suit your argument and get anywhere, especially around here. And it's a clear overstatement to say 'roid year' when Roberts name has been linked to one usage of hgh publicly. So both sides of your argument really have little relevance and don't contradict anything I previously posted. Not that I disagree with your premise, but if you think Roberts only used HGH one time because that's all the Mitchell report could uncover, I've got a bridge to sell you. I'll disagree with you on that (maybe again?). Why would Roberts admit in casual conversation that he used steroids, then lie about how much he used it? He either would lie about it completely, or he would tell the truth. It simply doesn't make sense that in 2004 he was willing to tell his friend, who he knew to be another steroid user, that he used steroids but then lie about the frequency. Because he's been caught w/ his hand in the cookie jar, and pleading minimal (one-time) use would somehow be better than admitting to continual use? It's more plausible to claim "I made a mistake" if only done once (or a few times); much harder to pass scrutiny when admitting continual use... Obviously I have no clue how many times Roberts used, but I disagree w/ the statement that it's all or nothing in terms of his mea culpa... But he wasn't caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Here is the only evidence against Roberts: So we have two friends talking privately. Roberts wasn't suspected of anything at the time. He had no reason to admit to steroids. If he wanted to cover it up, he easily could have. All he had to do was not tell his friend about his steroid use. Instead, he did. So why would he then lie that he only used it once or twice? His public apology means nothing to me. He easily could have been lying. I just don't see why he would tell so much of the truth to Bigbie, but then lie about a small part of the issue.