KyHen

Like I posted before, Marquis was even better with the Cardinals his first two years that what he has been with the Cubs this year. The Cardinals are too lucky to have him struggle that badly for a year with them, though. There would have been some sort of divine intervention that helped him right his path. They already had turned him around. He posted ERA+ of 82 and 75 in his final two years with the Braves. 2004 and 2005 have nothing to do with it. Marquis having a down year in 2006? Possible. But being the worst starter in the NL? Very unlikely. And for the Cardinals, no less? Inexplicable. I think you're missing the point, man: the Cards are protected by a magical aura that prevents them from suffering from the problems and distractions that normal, mortal teams are exposed to. Marquis 2006 season defies logic. Is this even debatable?

Like I posted before, Marquis was even better with the Cardinals his first two years that what he has been with the Cubs this year. The Cardinals are too lucky to have him struggle that badly for a year with them, though. There would have been some sort of divine intervention that helped him right his path.

Adam Kennedy - lowest OPS+ in the NL, second to only Nick Punto in major league baseball. Sidney Ponson - 84 ERA+, DFA'd. Junior Spivey - Didn't sniff the majors. $1.5 million down the drain; .698 OPS in Memphis (AAA). Anthony Reyes - Minor league [super]star. 87 ERA+ in 2006, 76 ERA+ in 2007. 2-12 record. Kip Wells - 82 ERA+; 6-13 record. Mark Grudzielanek - Lower OPS+ (92) than he had the year before with the Cubs (96) and the year before that, too, (105 -- also with Cubs). Jason Marquis - Finishes 2006 with a 73 ERA+ -- worst among qualifying NL starters; goes on to post 5.5 months of 106 ERA+ ball with Cubs. By comparison, a 106 ERA+ is just behind Adam Wainwright's Cardinal-rotation-leading 107 ERA+. Mark Mulder - 62 ERA+ in 2006. Misses [virtually all of] 2007. Dan Haren - AL-leading 170 ERA+. Now to critcize things have posted so far in this topic: "Bo Hart for a half a year" -- Laughable; Ryan Theriot, 134 ERA+ in 2006. "Matt Morris" -- [Laughed out loud] If you think the 2004 / 2005 STL Matt Morris was the same one as was with the Cardinals all along you clearly were not watching baseball during that time. That, or you can't accurately judge a pitcher's effectiveness. "Albert Pujols" -- Laughable; I won't even respond to this because I'll assume it's a joke. "Adam Kennedy" -- [Laughed out loud] Adam Kennedy? See above list. I doubt you'll take the time to look, so I'll spell it out for you: NL-worst OPS+. Second worst in majors to Nick Punto. "Mike Timlin" -- 100 ERA+ during the time he pitched in Philly (the year he was traded from St. Louis). 5-straight 106 (or higher) ERA+ seasons for Boston since 2003, including this year; career-high 197 ERA+ for the Red Sox in 2005. "David Eckstein" -- Career OPS+: 88. Average OPS+ in St. Louis: 87.666. Rounding up: 88. O WOW HOW LUCKY! One thing that bothers me about the whole notion about the Cardinals being lucky is the fact that the organization's staff is always ignored. Are you factoring in that they have one of the best managers in major league history that meticulously studies the game, allowing part-time players to have the most favorable match-ups humanly possible? No, you're probably not. If you did, it probably wouldn't be such a surprise to see limited-duty players (Spiezio, Nunez, Luna, etc) have success... Maybe aforementioned manager and said favorable match-ups have something to do with their increased production? Probably not, it's not as tangible as raw stats are, lets just ignore it and attribute it to luck. Are you factoring in that Dave Duncan is one of the best pitching coaches in major league baseball? When you follow the NFL, do you cry and moan every time you see a running back go to Denver and have success? Are the Broncos lucky? Maybe it's their system. Probably not, systems aren't as tangible as flat-out production so lets factor it out and completely and attribute it to luck. In summary: - Pitching coaches have no influence on player production. - Managers have no influence on player production. - Any and all success surrounding the St. Louis organization can (and should) be attributed to luck. - A personification of the St. Louis organization exists. His name is Midas, and his hand transforms things into gold. - Aberrations which are incriminating against the "luck/Midas Touch" theory shall be erased from the brain by means of selective amnesia.

While this is correct, this is a really stupid rule. The game shouldn't count unless it is completed. Yes, I agree. Stupid things happen in baseball, though. For example, do you think it was cool, as a Cards fan, to see Duncan have to continue an at-bat after a two-hour delay with two strikes against a new pitcher? Why not? You can switch pitchers in the middle of an at-bat. What's your point? Do you think there was an ice cube's chance in hell that Piniella would have went to Pignatiello had there not been a rain delay (eg: randomly during the at-bat)? No, there wasn't. The point was that the rain delay yesterday favored the Cubs big-time. I'm not saying this game ending early is completely equal to Duncan having to come in with two strikes (it's not really close, even), but the point is that sometimes you benefit from rain delays, sometimes you don't.

While this is correct, this is a really stupid rule. The game shouldn't count unless it is completed. Yes, I agree. Stupid things happen in baseball, though. For example, do you think it was cool, as a Cards fan, to see Duncan have to continue an at-bat after a two-hour delay with two strikes against a new pitcher?

The only way they would have to continue the game is IF it were official and IF the Cards had went ahead in the last half-inning to take the lead in a tie-game. This was not the case. The Cards scored in the top of the 6th, the Cubs got their chance in the bottom of the inning and didn't convert. If the game ended, the Cards would win 5-4; the Ankiel event would be washed out (pun intended). Hypothetical scenario of the new rules: In the 6th inning, the teams are tied 6-6. Cards go ahead in the top of the 6th. Game is delayed going to the bottom of the 6th. With the Cards now up 7-6, the Cubs would need a chance to match.

Never heard about that before; thanks, soccer. What does "FWANK" mean? Are you insinuating that the cocaine thing is just an inside joke or something?

^^ Bump?

What are you guys basing the "Ankiel cocaine" jokes on? I've never once heard that he had cocaine problems? Are you confusing him with Hamilton? I know Rick's father had problems with drugs, but I've never heard about Ankiel himself having drug problems.

God these games are fun to watch. I think we're going to lose (I'm a Cards fan, remember), but it's so entertaining...

I.... It's not worth arguing. -_-

I would say it probably was needed, because it was hit right at him and he had a hard time judging it.

That's not accurate. This is not to say that it was not a horrible swing... It was unbelievably bad. I'm just saying that it was not that far inside.

Duncan is so smooth out there.

That reaction by Piniella was hysterical.

:cry:

I can remember a handful of times in the past when my TV Guide allegedly told me I was getting the Cards game, only to be greeted with some other crap. Then again, that was years ago when I got my listings through an actual guide that came along with the newspaper.

I don't like losing, but I do like watching entertaining games. This was one of 'em.

I get so tense watching Cards/Cubs game! I'm almost shaking in anticipation of the outcome of each pitch.

Player of the game. Home run, robbed a run-scoring double... etc...

Hahah, we'll see mr. wolf We've scored 26 runs in the last three games. I'd be worried if I was you. Do you think I care that your 4 best pitchers are going to face us? NO Do you think I care that our 4 crappiest pitchers are going to face you? NO WE WILL ROCK YOUR S, MY FRIEND. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your posts but I find it rather funny that you were MIA for a long time here and now that the Cards are currently on a winning streak you show up again. He was MIA from Gateway Redbirds as well. Meaning it had no correlation to St. Louis winning or losing.

Rolen's expression when he got hit was pretty funny.

First Upton and now Maybin? Wow, these guys are way ahead of schedule...and oh-so-young!

While I agree on most of your points, I think this one is out of place considering what Carpenter has done from 04-06. You forgot to mention that Daric Barton is one of the best hitters in the PCL at the age of 21. :wink: Yeah, the only thing that really slightly eases the burden of losing Barton is the fact that we didn't have room for him. They converted him from a catcher for a reason, and he obviously was not going to supplant Pujols at first. I've heard varying opinions on his ability to play a corner outfield spot... but then again, defense didn't stop the Cards from playing Duncan there, now did it? But then again, that's not really a legitimate excuse. He would have been a tremendous trading chip in the unlikely event that we didn't have a spot for him.. By the way: I don't know if you guys remember this, but when Barton was injured last year do you know who collided with him? Tony Womack. God we're lucky. Even when players leave we still benefit from them! :P

Your completely missing the grand irony here. All of those things that you mention have happened, and yet the Cardinals sit 2.5 games out of first place in mid to late August You are drastically over-simplifying my rant. Then why are the Cardinals 2.5 games out of first place in August? Is it because of talent? Is it because of experience? Is it not lucky that the Cardinals happen to be playing in a terrible division? Is it not lucky that despite being outscored by 63 runs this season, they are only 2 games under .500? Is it not lucky that their rotation is second worst in the NL, and their big bats are all having down years and they are still contending? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on all of those points. The only reason that they are playoff "contenders" at this point is because of what is clearly a very weak division. But that's not what my rant is about. I'm namely talking about management and production. I'm trying to dismiss this ridiculous "midas touch" notion that people talk about. And as a Cards fan, I can say this applies to a lot more than just this year. I've been coming to NSBB for 3-4 years now, and some fans persist on humming the same tune year in and year out (not to insinuate that you're one of them). And while the points you make are spot-on, it's ridiculous for Cub fans to play that card when they're benefiting from the exact same thing. It's hypocrisy epitomized.