Andy

If MSU and ND's seasons were reversed then ND would not have played any team that was perceived to be worth a crap until the MSU game. There's a reason the Spartans were unranked going into that game...they'd played their usual cream puff non conference schedule. As for the Big Ten, ND is 2-1 against the Big Ten this year, 1-1 against two of the best in the conference. The Irish would be right up with PSU, OSU and everyone else at the top of the conference if they were in the B11.

What if the team I like beat the team that played USC like that? And had as many losses as that team, and was ranked over 10 spots worse? Possible reason: Got smeared by Ohio State at home, and lost to Michigan (remember, the bad three-loss team that ND 'barely escaped') at home. Compare to Notre Dame getting rocked(similar in scale to OSU "smearing" MSU) by USC at Notre Dame, then losing agian at home to MSU. There's very little difference. Notre Dame has a tighter loss against a higher ranked team, and Michigan State has a win over someone who's ranked. Similar in scale? O$U won by 11. Not as close as a last second three point loss. If people want to look just at the record and not how ND got there (just because Pitt and Purdue are a combined 5-8 doesn't change the fact that ND destroyed them in their own places, and ND's two losses have come in overtime and with 3 seconds left in the game, both against ranked teams), then that is their business. Having watched every minute of all six ND games this year I feel there's no reason at all why ND cannot be considered a top 10 team. If we are going to credit ND's hanging with USC almost exclusively to a rivalry and to the home field, then where was this when Purdue and Pitt were getting smoked at home by ND and when UM turned the ball over three times in the red zone against ND?

Knock off your ND griping. MSU could never, not with all the breaks in the book, play USC like ND did. MSU is below the Irish because their schedule has been a joke apart from ND and Ohio St. And yet the Irish playing at just about their absolute best, still lost to USC, just like MSU would have. Somehow I think you wouldn't be so dismissive of a team that played USC like that if it had been a team you like rather than a team you think is cocky and arrogant. What if the team I like beat the team that played USC like that? And had as many losses as that team, and was ranked over 10 spots worse? Possible reason: Got smeared by Ohio State at home, and lost to Michigan (remember, the bad three-loss team that ND 'barely escaped') at home.

Knock off your ND griping. MSU could never, not with all the breaks in the book, play USC like ND did. MSU is below the Irish because their schedule has been a joke apart from ND and Ohio St. And yet the Irish playing at just about their absolute best, still lost to USC, just like MSU would have. Somehow I think you wouldn't be so dismissive of a team that played USC like that if it had been a team you like rather than a team you think is cocky and arrogant.

I'd rather lose a game to USC in that fashion than beat a creampuff team. It says more about the ND team to me than had they walloped New Mexico State by 50 points. The Navy game isn't that far away. I really hope you aren't going to trash ND for playing Navy. The Middies, Stanford, U-Dub and BYU are the only teams on ND's schedule that everyone pretty much knew was not going to be very good. That's 4 out of 11 games. Most Big Eleven teams play more than that many bad teams IN conference play, let alone their miserable excuse for a non-conference schedule.

You're hilarious. ND doesn't join a conference because their financial situation is such that they don't need to and also because they have far too many rivals to expect to play them all in addition to a conference schedule. You are making fun of them for SOS? ND consistently has a top-10 toughest slate, which is more than I can say for anyone in the crappy Big Eleven. If ND has gotten favors from the refs I haven't seen it. Everyone agrees that they got jobbed by the refs in the USC game, and I don't see any past evidence of ND getting favorable calls except for one game against Navy in 1999 when they got a terrible spot that, if spotted correctly would have ended their win streak over Navy. That's the only example I have known of, of bad officiating in favor of ND. Michigan could never play USC close especially this year. They couldn't even hold Minnesota to OT at home when it was tied and the Gophers had it inside their own 30, so I doubt they could ever stop USC. Your arguments are baseless, wrong, and absurd. You mean a football conference....right? Obviously Notre Dame football is a completely different animal than the other Notre Dame sports. Most other ND sports, including basketball and baseball, are in the Big East conference. That's a different story than football.

Knock off your ND griping. MSU could never, not with all the breaks in the book, play USC like ND did. MSU is below the Irish because their schedule has been a joke apart from ND and Ohio St.

You're hilarious. ND doesn't join a conference because their financial situation is such that they don't need to and also because they have far too many rivals to expect to play them all in addition to a conference schedule. You are making fun of them for SOS? ND consistently has a top-10 toughest slate, which is more than I can say for anyone in the crappy Big Eleven. If ND has gotten favors from the refs I haven't seen it. Everyone agrees that they got jobbed by the refs in the USC game, and I don't see any past evidence of ND getting favorable calls except for one game against Navy in 1999 when they got a terrible spot that, if spotted correctly would have ended their win streak over Navy. That's the only example I have known of, of bad officiating in favor of ND. Michigan could never play USC close especially this year. They couldn't even hold Minnesota to OT at home when it was tied and the Gophers had it inside their own 30, so I doubt they could ever stop USC. Your arguments are baseless, wrong, and absurd.

To say TLR is a better manager is racist. Dusty is black, La Russa is white and people like HIM better. Coincidence? :roll:

I like Spider-Man better because he actually has powers, he has a hotter girlfriend than any chick Batman's ever gotten, and he doesn't have a 'dark side' like Batman. But I would rather BE Batman. After all...he's got money.

hahahahaha Why don't we just schedule 81 night games? Let's make Dusty happy. All he does is piss and moan about the day/night differential.

YES! A Bill Simmons wrestling joke! I love these! This is a wonderful idea.

1) Combined? Yes. You have two average to below-average offenses and if they both made it you would probably see the worst total offensive output ever in the Series. 2) It would be among them. I have a hard time believing anything will top Marlins/Indians in that department, though. 3) If the Cards win this series, Astros fans officially fall into the Cubs/Indians camp of tortured fans (albeit in a lower spot since they've been around a shorter time).

Becasue he took four steps before he started running, after a gigantic home run? Are you serious? I hope Oswalt does it. Simply because I want to see Albert go out to the mound and snap that punk in half. :lol: :lol: I think Oswalt is a twerp..., a talented twerp, but one nonetheless. It takes a lot to piss off Michael Barrett...if you've done that, you're a grade A jerk, IMO.

-Cubs in 2004, I was at the Mets game where the collapse began Good point Truffle, I forgot about the Cubs' 04 collapse. I can't believe I blocked that out...that one was probably more damaging than the 03 collapse because I have no doubt that that team would have at the very least gone to the World Series had they made the playoffs, whereas the 03 team was more of a surprise and I was happy they made it as far as they did. And Adam, I have always followed ND (I had no choice really, all my mom's family and all my dad's family are ND fans with maybe one or two exceptions) but I am only 18. I wasn't old enough at the time of the ND-BC 93 game to understand the significance of it (although I firmly remember my mom visibly crying as BC nailed the game-winning field goal). And since then, ND has been too painfully mediocre for there to be any scarring losses...although the 1/1/01 Fiesta Bowl was no fun. Being a Bulls fan there haven't been any painful losses in my memory, just painful teams, and the Carolina Panthers are the same way. (Losing fifteen games in a row when you have second-half leads or ties in twelve of them come to mind.) The Super Bowl loss to NE was not scarring because I was thrilled that no one could ever doubt that that Panthers team was for real anymore after that game. That was a longer response than I expected to post, but there you go.

I understand what you are saying but have you ever noticed how players sign discounts and waive no-trade clauses just to play in st louis? It's a good point but STL is far from exclusive in that way. Todd Walker took a discount and also a reduced role to play in Chicago. Randy Johnson was only too happy to waive his no-trade to play in New York. Heck, Barry Bonds took less money to stay in SF, although that may just be because he believes Willie Mays is the Lord Jesus Christ. STL is not the only city baseballers flock to. But I definitely can see why players like playing there. A great Cardinals player is treated as well as any great player in the majors, and usually better, by his hometown fans.

I normally agree with what you say, but come on. ND is not a top 5 team. IMO VT, Texas, USC (obviously), Georgia, Bama, LSU, Auburn, PSU, UCLA could all give ND a run for their money. Also FSU or Miami could very well beat them. They are 100% better than last year, but they are not there yet. I try not to look ahead till next year either. They will be great, but ND (much like the Cubs. Bears) always find a way to let me down. Tennessee will be tough this year, and I actually feel BYU will be a tough game. ND played their butts of on Saturday, but they can't play to that caliber week in and week out. If they could MSU would have never beat them, and they would have killed UM. They are a great team, with a lot of talent that Ty didn't know what to do with. However they are not top 5. Top 10, thats another story. I don't direct this at you, but I really wish some ND fans would come back to earth. It is real easy to get excited, and I am guilty of that as well. However we are just setting ourselves up for failure. Perhaps I have become a cynical due to how my teams have treated me in the past. However we must remember that this is a rebuilding year. I said Charlie will get his first NC in 2008. I still stand by this. I may get excited and say next year, and I have even mentioned it this year, but realistically they will need at least three years. I think expectations have gotten too high. When the season started I said they would win 7. If they still wind up only winning 7, I will not be disappointed. While this team can win out, I do not assume they will. Tennessee will be a tough game. BYU can be a tough game, depending which BYU shows up. The rest ND should win, but these two games worry me. With that being said ND will play in the Orange Bowl this year :D Also it is good to see all the ND-haters come out of the woodwork to complain about an "irrelevant" team. I really enjoy defending them, especially against scUM fans. :wink: It's true, when I get carried away I tend to say hyperbolic stuff like 'top-5 team'. Maybe not yet. I don't feel abashed at all though in thinking the Irish could win it all in 2006. If Weis can pile up this amount of improvement in one year, what happens next year when just about every player comes back except for Hoyte and four offensive linemen? (I don't count Dropsy Stovall.) And who's to say that Charlie's O-line recruits plus the backups won't be able to adequately pick up the slack? Maybe I haven't caught enough crap from my teams (the only truly painful moments of my life in sports so far are ND-BC 02 and the Cubs collapse in 03), but I really believe in this team and more importantly in Charlie Weis. And I agree...I love defending ND against scUM fans! And I also agree that ND will play in the Orange, against either Va Tech, Texas or perhaps even Alabama, any of which would be fantastic games.

I love the irrational ND-haters. Under Ty this team would have been 2-4 because they would have absolutely gotten blown out at UM and they would have found a way to blow the Purdue game. The reason that Henne 'had his head up his butt' was because that was a glimpse of a defense that will be much, much better in the future once they plug in some top recruits. ND is going to win out this season, and they can beat anyone they would be matched up with in a BCS game. Texas or VTech would be tough games but ND has proven they can beat anybody after Saturday's game. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Irish ran the table in 2006. The PSU/UM game sounded like a good game but it also sounded like UM got the usual aid from the refs that they always get at home. I wonder how many games' outcomes have been changed over the years at the Big House due to the refs' jobbing the opponents. ND IS that good. If you wanted to rank teams solely on how they looked on the field, not on past rep, than ND would probably be a top-5 team right now. I know you can't put them there with two losses because it would give them a chance to win the title...which they shouldn't have considering two losses. But I don't think it's irrational to think ND is playing top-five caliber football at this point. ND-haters are always fun to make fun of. It's too bad that for so many years they were right, but the Irish are soon to return to their rightful place at the top.

When we see Astros fans in St Louis for those series, then we'll talk. But easily, Cubs vs Cards. I don't see why this is even an argument, because IMO Cubs/Cards is the best rivalry in the NL period.

The proof is in the stats and not pipedreams. He is a lousy bunter and a very mediocre base stealer. Whether he was never taught or doesn't want to learn, does it really matter. He's gone and someone else will be in CF. Wins for a starting pitcher is the primary way to judge the effectiveness of a starter. Anyone who tries to say different or use 'quality starts' is denying the recognized standard for starting pitching. But then some yahoos are satisfied with 14 wins at $12 million. :lmao: Must be opposites day, because wins are the worst way to judge the effectiveness of a starting pitcher as he only controls half the equation if that much. It's an archaic and idiotic way to judge a pitcher's performance. Mark Prior in May 2003 against the Battling Buckos: 8 2/3 IP, one unearned run (ND) Remlinger came in that game, got one out, then the Cubs scored five runs in the top of the tenth, won 6-1, and Remlinger got the win. That is the end of my seminar on how important wins are in measuring the effectiveness of a pitcher.

I'd go but only so I could one day tell my kids that I went to a World Series game. And I'd wear Cubs stuff and laugh at how miserable the attempts to make fun of you by Sox fans were. (And they would be, should you choose to do that.)

I agree with Adam. Holtz didn't say the FG kicker comment after the ND game because it did not come down to a field goal kicker. Also, do you really not expect Lou to be an ND homer? I mean, come on. At least he has a reason, unlike Berman's love affair with the Boston Red Sox. He didn't have to. He could've complained about the OT system since it gives the offense the ball in scoring position. That's what it boils down to! Instead, he manages to praise an ND team that got absolutely shredded all day. And the next week he decides to deride the OT system. Okay, Lou. Actually, they got shredded till about thee fourths of the way through the third quarter, then scored one TD the rest of the regulation period while ND piled up 28 points in less than a quarter and a half. I'm pretty sure the coming back from down 31-10 and 38-17 is what Lou was praising. And that was praiseworthy, whether you choose to believe it or not.

I agree with Adam. Holtz didn't say the FG kicker comment after the ND game because it did not come down to a field goal kicker. Also, do you really not expect Lou to be an ND homer? I mean, come on. At least he has a reason, unlike Berman's love affair with the Boston Red Sox.

fixed :wink:

It should be noted that I said right after Berkman hit his jack that "if this is destined to be a great series, then the Cardinals will dump a three-spot in the ninth and send this to St. Louis". I said that to a Cards fan on another board. Welllll...I guess this is destined to be a great series. What a job by the Cardinals. Innings like that is why they are in the playoffs. You've got to respect the hell out of the Cards for doing all that, with 2 outs, against the current best closer in the game, Brad Lidge. Simply amazing performance.