bring stone back

You really think so? Let's play "who looks like a better hitter game". Player A: .300 .355 .469 .824 Player B: .271 .352 .337 .689 The numbers above are career minor league numbers, one guy who posted his numbers all the way to age 26, the other guy who posted them by the age of 22. That's great. Are the Cubs playing in the minor leagues this year? I've seen Ryan Theriot have success at the plate in the major leagues. Granted, it was for about a month and a half but I've never seen Felix Pie do that. As I've said in another post about this, Pie has more potential and upside long-term but if you were to ask me RIGHT NOW who the better hitter between the two it would be Theriot and it's not that close. By the All-Star break that may change but I'm not holding my breath. I could easily foresee a Cedeno type situation with Pie with fans wondering why this guy hits so well in the minors and when is he going to "figure it out" at the mlb level.

Beertown Cubbie just mentioned on page 2 of this thread he is actively rooting against Theriot. Every team (especially those in the NL) have a weakness - Theriot is ours. I'd rather see Theriot hit down further in the order, as well and if he struggles - Lou's track record suggests he'll do something about it. I still think Theriot is a better hitter than Pie, however and I don't know why people are so outraged where Pie hits. He's the worst hitter on the team and will/should hit 8th.

No, but I sure was expecting around 25. Now it seems like we're hoping for 15 or so. As Soul mentioned above, where is he going to be in 2-3 years from now? Scary...in a bad way.

Reading Muskat's latest Q&A she said Soriano would never again be the 40 stolen base guy we thought we were getting. What is so bad with his legs that the last 5 months off couldn't heal and (according to him) how is this going to change for the better in the next week or so? He said himself last week he was about 85% but expected to be 100% by this week. How bad does Hendry regret this contract now? Only 7 more years to go!!

A lot of people on this board like to make fun of Theriot labeling him as a "grinder" which is fine but since when did it become a bad thing for a player with somewhat limited physical abilities to get the most out of their talent? Why is that a bad thing? If Cedeno had a little more "grinder" in him he'd probably be the starting shortstop - but he doesn't and he's not. I wish the Cubs would have acquired a Khalil Greene over the winter or upgraded the position but they didn't and Theriot is the best we got. if theriot's getting the most out of his abilities then his abilities are bad. i don't want him, trade him while he has some perceived value as a "grinder". maybe they'll take him on the south side where grinders go to die. and who starts at shortstop? Certainly not Cedeno - he's worse than Theriot.

A lot of people on this board like to make fun of Theriot labeling him as a "grinder" which is fine but since when did it become a bad thing for a player with somewhat limited physical abilities to get the most out of their talent? Why is that a bad thing? If Cedeno had a little more "grinder" in him he'd probably be the starting shortstop - but he doesn't and he's not. I wish the Cubs would have acquired a Khalil Greene over the winter or upgraded the position but they didn't and Theriot is the best we got. Because usually when a player is labeled a grinder, its because their actual baseball skillset, and stats, show that hes not very good. And this is the case with Theriot. Also, Cedeno cant be a grinder hes not white..... Fair enough. In this case I'll take the grinder over the non-grinder then.

I'm rooting for the guy - especially now that he's out of the NL Central but there have been a LOT of really talented guys to come through the league. Now the question is can he sustain this success and what does he do with that talent?

A lot of people on this board like to make fun of Theriot labeling him as a "grinder" which is fine but since when did it become a bad thing for a player with somewhat limited physical abilities to get the most out of their talent? Why is that a bad thing? If Cedeno had a little more "grinder" in him he'd probably be the starting shortstop - but he doesn't and he's not. I wish the Cubs would have acquired a Khalil Greene over the winter or upgraded the position but they didn't and Theriot is the best we got.

Well if that's not an oxymoron. Lineup order doesn't matter, Move Theriots spot in the lineup. Unless you mean that the arguments are pointless because it is just a test. Lineup order barely matters, but if there's one thing you don't want, it's your worst hitter at the top of the order getting the most PAs. Happy? I still think Pie is worse than Theriot and the worst hitter out of our regulars. Really? Yeah - right now I think he is. Of course Pie has a lot more upside and potential and that could change soon but I see a little Cedeno in him and I'm wondering if in a couple years from now we're still waiting for Pie to "figure it out." If you were to ask me right now who the worst hitters of the regulars is I'd say Pie.

Well if that's not an oxymoron. Lineup order doesn't matter, Move Theriots spot in the lineup. Unless you mean that the arguments are pointless because it is just a test. Lineup order barely matters, but if there's one thing you don't want, it's your worst hitter at the top of the order getting the most PAs. Happy? To be fair I'd say he's one of the worst hitters on the team. I still think Pie is worse than Theriot and the worst hitter out of our regulars. I'd still like to see the Cubs explore Fukudome in center and Murton in right but that won't happen.

It's clearly not distracting Roberts, so who is it distracting? Me - I spend at least 2 minutes a day checking SI.com to see of any announcement or the latest Roberts/Cubs rumor. (I'm sorry, I just really wanted to join the club of those who were a part of this legendary thread).

Do you really expect Cedeno to push Theriot for the SS job or is it just wishful thinking? We all know Theriot is a weakness on this team but he's a better player than Cedeno. Lou can't keep putting out lineups based on "upside and potential" hoping Cedeno figures it out. I don't see that happening any time soon.

I hope he's concerned about this. It's his job to be and to get the team ready to play come Opening Day. Derrek Lee will hit, and likely as soon as he needs to. Risking overextending anyone, especially him, is the opposite of smart. These guys are doing repetitive hitting drills and/or taking batting practice every day. Do you really think an additional 3-4 at bats in a Spring game is overextending him? I certainly don't. Especially with a guy like Lee who is used to playing 150 games a year. It's not quite as simple to say he'll start to hit when he "needs to."

I hope he's concerned about this. It's his job to be and to get the team ready to play come Opening Day.

I see your point but I don't think I've ever heard of a player coming out of Spring Training say "I feel too good - too locked in at the plate. I just had too many good at bats this Spring." If anything I'd prefer the regulars get enough/too many at bats in the Spring. Especially considering the Cubs are a team with no real young player looking to crack the lineup or any real evaluation needing to be done right now as far as position players. We all know what we have this year, the every day lineup and most of the bench. Let's give them the at bats and ready to go.

Yes, it certainly could. How so exactly? By over-extending themselves in those 3-4 at bats in a Spring Training game? If the regulars are healthy, which all but Pie seem to be, play them and get them regular at bats now. That is what Spring Training is for - especially those who have missed time.

More at bats in the Spring is not a bad thing. It certainly can't hurt guys who have already/will miss some time like DeRosa, Soriano, Ramirez and Pie. We already know who will be in the every day lineup and most of the bench anyway. Let the regulars get their at bats.

Link. Good.

His .097 batting average and .121 On Base % meant enough to get him a bus ride to Iowa. He'll be back, and hopefully he will be doing what we all feel he is capable of doing. Can't argue with those numbers....

I've seen Jacque Jones have back-to-back crappy years in MLB (most recently 2004 and 2005), and he's been awful this year with no signs of improvement. He's not worth keeping on this roster. Pie's numbers are actually comparable to Jones' this season, so why not give Pie a shot if you're willing to give it to Jones? And again, Cedeno was never given a chance this year. Yes, he had a poor season last year. However, he's still a much better option than having Cesar Izturis on this roster. I don't know what you expect, but Jones certainly did not have a "crappy" year last year. Played fairly well actually....27 home runs, 80+ RBI's. That's pretty darn good.

Jesus, I wish people would stop making this ridiculous arguement. Winning and playing young guys are not mutually exclusive. No, they are not - you're right. However, when those young guys with so much upside do NOT produce when given opportunities they are.

-Murton is clearly better than Floyd against lefties. DeRosa should be at 2B, with Murton RF against lefties. It's beyond stupid to delay this. -Pie is not likely to perform any worse offensively than Pagan or Jones and is far better defensively than either. He's always adjusted well after moving up a level, and I don't see why he wouldn't do so again, given time. -Cedeno is a good bet to be better than Izturis and certainly isn't likely to be worse. The bottom line is none of these moves will make the Cubs worse, and all have a decent chance to actually make them better. Saying you can't give these guys a shot and keep winning is beyond absurd. It's just plain wrong. Again, you're making these lineup decisions based on what you think or hope will happen. When Pie was up, he was outperformed by Pagan....same can be said for Murton. Sadly, when Cedeno was up, he was outperformed by Izturis and that's hard to do. The fact is those 3 players had their opportunity earlier in the year and all 3 failed or did not meet expectations. Are you kidding? You are kidding? I guess if a guy doesn't "produce" immediately they should be gotten rid of. They should have shelved Soriano a long time ago by that logic. It is really beyond my ability to understand where you get your opinon from. Pie was given a "chance"? Murton was given a "chance"? Cendeno performed badly last year, but there is some adjustment time. What is the cut off so we can have a frame of reference. The player needs to produce in his first 20 ABs? After that he should be given a positon no matter what. Pagan is just terrible. I can't think of another MLB team that he would play for. The perfect "have your cake and eat it, too" argument. On the one hand the Cubs need to win now, the organization as a whole is so inept, etc....meanwhile let's make sure we bring up and give at bats to our young guys even though every single one of them was beaten out and outproduced by another option earlier in the year. When Cedeno and Pie could barely make contact and were consistently overwhelmed by major league pitching we're supposed to be okay with that but when Jacque Jones has a bad first half he should not get another chance? I've seen Jacque Jones have consistent success in major league baseball. I have never seen Pie or Cedeno have any consistent success in major league baseball.

All lineup decisions should be based on reasonable expectations of what you think will happen. Making a decision based on 3 weeks of comparisons from a month or two ago is stupid. I'm not making comparisons based on 3 weeks. Pie and Cedeno have been overwhelmed every time they've been up. Consistently overwhelmed. This time will be different, right? If not - it will certainly be the next time they're called up, right? Murton on the other hand has had success and I'd like for him to come up but I'd like for him to get more AB's in Iowa first and learn how to play right field, too.

-Murton is clearly better than Floyd against lefties. DeRosa should be at 2B, with Murton RF against lefties. It's beyond stupid to delay this. -Pie is not likely to perform any worse offensively than Pagan or Jones and is far better defensively than either. He's always adjusted well after moving up a level, and I don't see why he wouldn't do so again, given time. -Cedeno is a good bet to be better than Izturis and certainly isn't likely to be worse. The bottom line is none of these moves will make the Cubs worse, and all have a decent chance to actually make them better. Saying you can't give these guys a shot and keep winning is beyond absurd. It's just plain wrong. Again, you're making these lineup decisions based on what you think or hope will happen. When Pie was up, he was outperformed by Pagan....same can be said for Murton. Sadly, when Cedeno was up, he was outperformed by Izturis and that's hard to do. The fact is those 3 players had their opportunity earlier in the year and all 3 failed or did not meet expectations.

Holy snikes. They were and are not worse. They all had slumps/adjustment periods that they weren't allowed to work through. Cedeno is absolutely destroying AAA pitching. Pie and Murton cannot be worse than JJ and Ward/Floyd over the long haul. I don't think the Kendall trade was slammed throughout this board, not even close. The Kendall trade was indeed slammed or viewed as a bad trade by the Cubs by MOST on the board. Murton, Cedeno and Pie were indeed worse than their counterparts earlier this year. What else can Piniella make judgments on - what he hopes or thinks someone might do? He has to give at bats and playing time based on what he's seen and production. I would expect nothing less.