K-Town

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you, to a certain extent, however, that was an absolutely horrible pitch that Lidge threw there. A hanging slider, belt-high, right down main street. Mick Kelleher would have hit that out...., well, maybe not, but you get the picture, huh? I agree that it was a horrible pitch, but it's pretty irrelevant in that park, though. Heck, Carpenter threw a pretty good pitch to Berkman, and Berkman boinked it out.

Stop saying "Cardinal fans", and show me one. Just one.........

Berkman was running (in my opinion) because he hit a soft liner to left that probably felt like it should have been a long single. I imagine he was probably thinking about stretching it into a double. Pujols hit a home run. I think Berkman knew, he has hit enough wall scraping cheapies into those boxes to recognize one. I just don't like the bad ass stroll out of the box staring down the homer routine. I don't like it when ARam does it, I don't like it when Manny does it, and I don't like it when Pujols or others do it. At least jog for Pete's sake. If someone did that to me when I played ball, I'd have earholed him in his next AB. I agree. And you can go ahead and mark down Sosa's little 'homer hop' as one of those things as well. Very disrespectful, IMO. And Zambrano's finger-pointing, after a strikeout. And catchers who "whip" the ball down to third base after a strikeout. The world is entirely too sensitive these days. It's a game, people. Pujols didn't insult anybody's mother.

Berkman was running (in my opinion) because he hit a soft liner to left that probably felt like it should have been a long single. I imagine he was probably thinking about stretching it into a double. Pujols hit a home run. I think Berkman knew, he has hit enough wall scraping cheapies into those boxes to recognize one. I just don't like the bad ass stroll out of the box staring down the homer routine. I don't like it when ARam does it, I don't like it when Manny does it, and I don't like it when Pujols or others do it. At least jog for Pete's sake. If someone did that to me when I played ball, I'd have earholed him in his next AB. I don't have a big problem with any of those players, but I respect the fact that you call out ALL of those guys, instead of just Pujols. I agree with your premise........... we should either be OK with it or we shouldn't, but we can't pick and choose which players can and can't do it.

No. The Cardinals are still playing. But it makes me wanna puke hearing Hrabosky always talk about Ramirez and the others who stare at their homers but then he never says anything about Pujols. As I said earlier, it's not just him, but a whole bunch of fans and STL media, too. HOM101 (Intro to Homerism) - This introductory course discusses the various mannerisms and approaches to showing support for the home team, regardless of whether or not they act like chumps. Can be taken in conjunction with HOM120 (Rose-coloured glasses) I don't necessarily disagree with the premise that's been presented. If you're going to have a problem with players watching their homers, then Pujols shouldn't be an exception. Personally, I don't see the problem with it.

No. The Cardinals are still playing. But it makes me wanna puke hearing Hrabosky always talk about Ramirez and the others who stare at their homers but then he never says anything about Pujols. As I said earlier, it's not just him, but a whole bunch of fans and STL media, too. You're certainly not going to bait me into defending Hrabosky. He's a stone-cold idiot, in my opinion.

Walking and staring at your work is showing up the pitcher, and generally poor sportsmanship. But many people tend to like poor sportsmanship nowadays. That's fine. I'd prefer that to an on-field celebration before you've won anything, but that's just me. It's preference, I guess. But don't ever watch a basketball game, football game or hockey game because those guys always celebrate before the end of a game, especially in the playoffs, when the game is no longer in doubt and they're getting ready to advance. I'd suggest that you don't watch them either, because there's WAY more showboating going on in those sports than what Pujols does by simply watching the ball that he just hit.

Walking and staring at your work is showing up the pitcher, and generally poor sportsmanship. But many people tend to like poor sportsmanship nowadays. That's fine. I'd prefer that to an on-field celebration before you've won anything, but that's just me.

He may have been less inclined to walk to first base if Berkman hadn't "danced" his way around the bases earlier, and if the Astros' dugout hadn't been high-fiving before the final out of the game, and if they hadn't celebrated on the field after Game 4. You're making something of nothing. Every player isn't a Pete Rose type who sprints around the bases every time he makes contact. Man, I hate the double standards that Cardinal fans seem to place on players. Only in St. Louis, I guess. If it's no big deal for Pujols to stand and watch almost every home run, then I want Cardinal fans and announcers to quit shoving down our throats how "professional" it is when Rolen sprints around the bases when he homers. I could take Pujols standing at the plate watching it in that situation but he does it every time whether it's a game winning homer or a homer in the eighth with the Cardinals leading by 8. I like the way Rolen does it better than the way Pujols does it. Happy?

He may have been less inclined to walk to first base if Berkman hadn't "danced" his way around the bases earlier, and if the Astros' dugout hadn't been high-fiving before the final out of the game, and if they hadn't celebrated on the field after Game 4. You're making something of nothing. Every player isn't a Pete Rose type who sprints around the bases every time he makes contact. Why is it so wrong for the Astros to be excited about an important home run, game-ending double play that nobody thought could be made, or being one out away from the World Series? Somebody earlier said "act like you've been there" when they were giddy before the last out. But the Astros haven't been there. The atmosphere was electric, they were up two runs with nobody on and two outs and the best reliever in baseball on the mound. Showing excitement in that situation isn't unprofessional, it's human. I don't care if Pujols walked to first or not, but doubt he did it because of what the Astros were doing earlier. That's fine. If you want to celebrate before the job is done, then you're going to have to deal with the egg on your face when it all comes crashing down. It's the chance you take. All Pujols did was walk to first base and watch his home run (which was pretty, you have to admit). Why is that so much more of a crime than dancing, giggling, and clapping around the bases? The Cards (including Pujols) didn't celebrate after the win last night. They shook hands and headed to the clubhouse, despite it being one of the most dramatic wins in playoff history. So don't talk to me about Cardinal players "showboating".

He may have been less inclined to walk to first base if Berkman hadn't "danced" his way around the bases earlier, and if the Astros' dugout hadn't been high-fiving before the final out of the game, and if they hadn't celebrated on the field after Game 4. You're making something of nothing. Every player isn't a Pete Rose type who sprints around the bases every time he makes contact.

Berkman was running (in my opinion) because he hit a soft liner to left that probably felt like it should have been a long single. I imagine he was probably thinking about stretching it into a double. Pujols hit a home run.

I really liked Pujols at first, but he is really disrespectful with the way he stands and watches his homers now. He wasn't like that when he came up, but has developed that habit over time. I don't care for it any more than I cared Sosa's stupid hop. Plus, he's a Cardinal. It is every Cub fan's birthright to hate any Cardinal. Ya, he's a great player, but..... He's been disrespectful watching his homers for a while now. Do you remember when Gary Bennett confronted him about it? He's been doing that for a couple years now, and it is tacky. Yes, I do remember that. All the Cardinal fans were immediately coming to his defence and calling Bennett bush and what-not..... If I was pitching, I would put Pujols on his arse if he did that to me or one of my teammates. More than once, if needed. Really? And the Astros celebrating like they had won the pennant after Game 4, and again after the Berkman homer last night, and again with 2 outs in the 9th last night................. that's not disrespectful? What's the difference between Pujols walking trotting to first base and Berkman clapping and dancing around first base?

Technically, if the numbers hold true, then the Cards should be favored. Using home field advantage as the barometer, the Cards are right where they need to be (and exactly where they were last year).

Andy got to celebrate his pennant after Game 4, and after Berkman's home run last night. I don't feel sorry for any of them. Did you see the Cardinals' reaction after the game last night? No celebrating. They simply shook hands and headed for the clubhouse. They know that they still have work to do, unlike the Astros after Game 4. That's why the Cards are the best team in baseball.

Well, to be fair, the Astros DID tie for the best home record in all of baseball this year. And their record is even better when the roof is closed (holds the crowd noise), so they've made a point of closing the roof for this series. So their park does seem to have some quirky advantages that other parks don't. Still I don't consider that to be an "excuse". You play where you play........ you still have to get the job done.

After having lived in Houston a while back, knowing some of their fans and going to some of their games, I just can't bring myself to cheer for the Astros'. Although I don't want to see any of these teams in the World Series, I could live with it being the Sox and Cardinals. I could careless who wins the Series of those 2, cause both options stink. Actually all 3 options stink. The good news (for Cub fans) is that 2 out of these three teams (Astros, Cards, Sox) will end the season as losers. :wink:

I agree. I don't buy the excuses.

Don't you remember? The Cubs had perfect health in '03 and everyone over achieved. The Cards would've won the division, if the Cubs weren't so damn lucky in '03, nevermind the injuries to Sosa, Choi, Patterson, Prior, Grudzielanek, etc. Oh yeah, Houston had a better record as well. I think that the last 2 years have given a little credence to that theory, actually.

As a Cub fan living in St. Louis and having grown up in Central Illinois, I have been and will be rooting for the Astros in the NLCS. At least from what I read in the Houston Chronicle and from what I read some fans say after last year's NLCS, they were able to admit they lost to the better team. If the Cards lose the NLCS, fans and STL media will blame it on umpires and injuries; conveniently forgetting the fact that the Astros have had the best record in baseball since June 1, the Cards have been horrible with RISP, and the Astros bullpen completely shutting down baseball's best offense. I hope the series is over tonight. Astros fans had to admit that they lost to the better team last year. The Cards finished 13 games ahead of Houston in the standings. This year, the Cards finished 11 games ahead of Houston in the standings. 162 games determines the best team, in my opinion. I'm sure we can all agree that a 7 game series isn't always going to determine the "best team". The Cards were the better team last year, and also this year. That doesn't mean they'll win the World Series.

the astros met my standard, and id say they are now the favorites. I'm curious how much of a swing tonight's game would represent. If the Cards win, they they're back to Busch, and home field holds true. Winning 3 in a row is a pretty tall task, but it's happened before. If the Cards win tonight, then I think that the pressure shifts back to the Astros. Of course, tonight is no guarantee, and Oswalt and Clemens at Busch isn't exactly a walk in the park, either. The Astros have definitely put themselves in a good position. No doubt about it. i think if the cards win tonight, the astros remain slight favorites. if the cardinals tie the series at 3, i think it'd be all but even, as the cardinals would be at home, but i cant say that i love that pitching matchup for them. I'd agree with that assessment.

the astros met my standard, and id say they are now the favorites. I'm curious how much of a swing tonight's game would represent. If the Cards win, they they're back to Busch, and home field holds true. Winning 3 in a row is a pretty tall task, but it's happened before. If the Cards win tonight, then I think that the pressure shifts back to the Astros. Of course, tonight is no guarantee, and Oswalt and Clemens at Busch isn't exactly a walk in the park, either. The Astros have definitely put themselves in a good position. No doubt about it.

As a Cardinals fan, I'll definitely be rooting for the NL representative, whether it's the Astros or the Cards.

Or the Co-Divisional Champions banner at Busch. :roll: :lol: I'm not sure what your point is. The Cardinals WERE co-division champions.

It would have saved the umps a lot of grief. competence also could have saved the umps a lot of grief. True. He made a mistake and it came back to bite him big time. How so? Indecision. How is it biting him? He gets paid, regardless of how horrible the call was. It's biting the Angels.