Exile on Waveland

He looks better than two years ago; to the point where I have some hope he may be able to play the whole season without getting hurt again. Now, obviously, he'll never be the player he was and is likely only capable of being a spot-up shooter. That's something, at least.

I'm not saying Tom Crean is molesting kids(but I'm not saying he's not either). I'm talking about the creepy cult of Indiana basketball. I think that died awhile ago.

"Or that last season, he needed three scholarship players — Elisha Justice, Kyle Kuric and Chris Smith — to become walk-ons." http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/07/rick-pitino-oversigning-and-some-more-ramblings-about-transfers/ (see also Michael Bradley giving up a scholarship at UConn http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2011/10/uconn-freshman-sacrifices-own-scholarship-to-sign-andre-drummond/ ("red-shirt freshman Michael Bradley approached Calhoun and offered up his full basketball scholarship so the program could sign Drummond"). I believe there are a few other examples of this, too, that I'm forgetting. It's not unheard of.

The only people that disagree are people that hate Indiana and want to think the worst. I'm pretty sure you have that exactly backwards. The only people that agree with your assesment are IU fans. Oh, great. In that case I'd love to see some support for that proposition. Then, if you happen to find anything, we can weigh that against the beliefs of parties that were actually involved.

As I've said many times, a player had already agreed to go off scholarship. Yes, the mythical player who would pay his own way, passed down from generation to generation to rationalize shoving a kid off the team. And you can enter a school year with 14 scholarship basketball players? That's news to me. It is so unheard of that two kids did so at Louisville last year. I am not entirely sure; but I think that doesn't have to be squared away until the first semester begins.

As I've said many times, a player had already agreed to go off scholarship. Now, maybe you don't think that's fair and think that's akin to "Creaning." Depending on who the player was, especially if he hadn't agreed to it before coming to Indiana, I'd think you have a point.

IU is the Penn State of the basketball world? Not, say, I don't know, Syracuse? As I said before: you have hate and nothing else for evidence. I'm tempted to end with that because of how absurd that point was. But I'll comment on two other things: first, Jurkin takes a scholarship for four years, too, and is a lesser prospect, so why not him?; second, sure, you can practice with fourteen players, but I'm not sure what your point is? If Patterson was run off, Crean did so at a time when he could have also lost Perea and Jurkin as eligible players. Edit: I'm sure there are instances of players bad-mouthing a coach when leaving; but this situation would be so, so worse than the typical situation, I have a very hard time believing no one would have said anything.

So Patterson and his AAU coach are lying? Because they both agree that's what happened. The only people that disagree are people that hate Indiana and want to think the worst. You, literally, have no evidence whatsoever to support your position other than hate. (Maybe Crean is like a Mafia Don and can force a code of omerta even among players no longer at IU?) Indiana isn't overly hard to get into, but that doesn't mean it entirely lacks standards (as I've said, perhaps they've increased standards for basketball players after the Sampson debacle . . . ? They have had the contingency admittance for awhile, I know). Regardless, graduating in three years is not that difficult in the State of Indiana anymore. Mitch Daniels was a driving force for high schools to offer more AP classes/college credits, so students could enter college with more credits, graduate sooner, and thus spend less money. Then you factor in summer classes -- and the fact that athletes have excellent tutors and such, and it's not that hard. Graduating early is as much about credit-accumulation as it is about intelligence level.

Gotcha. I'm not unreasonable, even if I am an IU fan. On that, I do believe IU over-signed last year because they expected Watford to go pro (he had to be talked out of going pro as a sophomore). That surely caused Crean to scramble a bit, but a player, not sure which, agreed to pay his own way. If the same thing happens this year, and no one besides Zeller goes pro, I'm not sure what will happen and I could see the situation taking an ugly turn. Hope not.

You really want to compare the pro prospects of Watford and Zeller? Patterson ended up at Syracuse, I think he will be fine. His situation has been well covered. If Patterson was really screwed as many of you want to believe, why be so silent on it? Why wouldn't he blast the program? Crean's not the laughingstock many painted him to be his first few years. He turned this thing around before many thought possible. Hope you really enjoyed those few years because I don't see them returning very soon. First, it's entirely false to say the fan base does not care. There's been a thread nearly every day for at least a year (sometimes more than one) on peegs about the over-signing issue. There are many that are uncomfortable with it. I'm not entirely sure what the remedy here is, however; boycott because Bobby Capobianco was asked to transfer? Really? Second, there's nothing to "explain away" with Patterson. He did not make his grades and was not admitted (if he had bee there was a plan in place and one player was going to go off scholarship). To believe otherwise, one must believe, at least: (1) the university itself not only turned a blind eye, but was complicit and opened itself up to all the blame (I suppose possible nowadays, see UNC, but doesn't seem likely); (2) Crean lined fourteen players up and chose to run off the ninth most valuable prospect instead of the fourteenth (why not "Crean" the worst player on the team? -- this isn't Capobianco ending up at Valpo, Patterson ended up at Syracuse -- he's darn good); (3) Crean ran a player off while two other players were in limbo having not been cleared by the NCAA (why not wait to "Crean" a player before knowing you actually will have to?) (4) Crean allowed Patterson to matriculate, take summer classes, then pulled the rug out from under him in the middle of the summer, not only pulling his scholarship but placing him in a veritable dunce's cap by blaming academics -- and yet, despite actions that would be utterly despicable, not one person wronged has said otherwise (Instead we have Patterson saying ". . . it was an opportunity I didn’t fulfill" and his AAU coach saying "It was a close call as far as him getting into school"). The silence speaks volumes. But I know, I know, the long form birth certificate doesn't have the appropriate water mark.

That piece of yellow journalism was, and is, a farce. I think you know that. If you didn't, it's actually clearer now. The only thing with any substance in that article were the benefits provided by A-HOPE -- which the NCAA has now confirmed are not improper benefits. The only, ahem, impropriety occured because Adams' wife bought a few IU bumper stickers twenty years ago. And here's an ESPN blog mocking this decision: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/66502/ncaas-indiana-suspensions-just-plain-silly

I'd entertain that stance if IU, the institution or coaching staff, was accused of doing something here, but they weren't. Moreover, there is no such history of disregard of the rules. The "history" is a one-off instance of Sampson. That's it. IU has historically been one of the cleanest, most rule-abiding major athletic programs. (Unless we're counter things like speaking to Gary Harris one day late and Steve Alford posing for a sorority fundraising calendar . . . in which case, (1) you're silly and (2) every institution would have a "history" of disregarding rules.)

There'd be no hype for that game. None at all. Colts still aren't making the playoffs though -- five more road games. I'm not quite that definitive about their playoff chances. The last playoff spot will likely be a 9-7 team. Two winnable road games (at Jac and at KC). Split those, win the two home games they're favored in (BUF, TEN) and they are just looking to steal one more at that point to probably get in. It could come down to if Houston rests starters or not in week 17. If I had to go between the Colts and the field, I'd take the field. But I have a hard time picking out a 6th playoff team. San Diego has struggled outside their division, and none of the 3-5 teams are good bets to suddenly take off. Miami is probably the best of the lot, and the Colts have now a lead and the tiebreaker on them. Of course, the Colts could easily lose a few close games going down the stretch and only win 7 as well. Yeah, I know I'm more bearish than you (and most?) about the Colts. With so many close wins, it's hard for me to be sold on them. I don't believe a 5-1 record in one-possession games is sustainable (maybe with prime Peyton Manning, but Luck isn't at that level). They're also 1-2 on the road, with two blowout losses (though I doubt they lose both at Jacksonville and at Kansas City).

Well that's a contest Purdue co-eds should have no problem winning.

There'd be no hype for that game. None at all. Colts still aren't making the playoffs though -- five more road games.

Should we be pulling for an Oregon/IU Rose Bowl? Hey, I'd take it. It would eleventy-billion to three, but I'd still take it.

Hope not. He needs to leave early so there are enough spots for Crean's 13-man recruiting class.

Assuming this means Kenny Johnson will be fired immediately since the only reason he was hired according to the tinfoil-hatters was to recruit Anya, right? Right . . . ?

Devan Dumes It's been awhile, honestly, what are we talking about here? The sucker punches were obviously not good, but I'm forgetting any academic issues. (I spoke to him when he was in high school and he seemed bright enough, for what that's worth.) I was mostly remembering his play and the fact that he was a JUCO. He started at Eastern Michigan before going JUCO (Vincennes) for a year. I have no idea if that says good or bad things about his academics, though.

At the time, they were, at least, arguably the best two players in the state in their class and IU was not yet recruiting at its current level. Both commitments were roundly celebrated at the time. On the specific players, I doubt you'd hear many complaints from Crean regarding Davis. He's tough, athletic, relentless, should be a good college player, and is perfect for Crean's system. As for Hartman, he is smart player that does several things well; however, I suspect Crean would like to have that one back. (This will always be an issue as long as Crean takes commitments so early.) As for Vonleh, I wouldn't call it "likely" but it certainly is possible. They may have as good as chance as anyone, but I'm not sure there's a leader. In the end, I suspect he'll stay in the east somewhere.

He said something like "not good enough to play first base for the Chicago Cubs, but good enough to play first base for the world champions."

Devan Dumes It's been awhile, honestly, what are we talking about here? The sucker punches were obviously not good, but I'm forgetting any academic issues. (I spoke to him when he was in high school and he seemed bright enough, for what that's worth.)

Yes, all one has to do is watch Harden to know he's damn good. That was the case in AAU/high school, college, and the NBA. He's been significantly better than Lamb at the first two stops and I see little reason that changes in the NBA. (Yes, I know there is a journeyman and two draft picks also in the trade.) Kevin Martin is a journeyman? This is his third team after relatively long tenures in two cities. His career PER is over 18 and he's had several seasons over 20. The concern with Martin is his durability/injury history, but he's in his walk year and there will be several talented players hitting the market this offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if they use that cash for a forward like Josh Smith, but there will be several solid SG's out there as well (AI, Ellis, and Mayo, to name a few). This will be his third team in four years. Next year he's likely to be on his fourth team in five years. Maybe I'm a year too early, but it's almost inevitable that he bounces around the rest of his career.

Or it's possible after the farcical academic situation that was the Sampson era, IU has become a bit more careful and/or given less leeway to basketball players. That would be commendable, not deplorable. And of course programs want Ron Patterson. That's a big part of my point. IU wanted him. He's almost certain to be a better college player than Austin Etherington or Peter Jurkin or Remy Abell (and no program, at this point, would chose Maurice Creek or probably Derek Elston over him). This wasn't the worst player on the team being moved on (i.e., Capobianco), it was an in-state player, from the key AAU program, with a bright future leaving. It was not a good thing for IU. (Further, circumstantially, we've heard nothing from Patterson, his parents, his high school coach, or his AAU coach, stating otherwise. If this was a sham, I find it hard to believe they'd all be silent. Because, if this was a sham, not only would it put Crean/the basketball program in a bad light, the entire university would be smeared -- it wasn't the basketball program, but the university itself that did not fully admit Patterson, meaning the academic side would be covering up for the basketball program (which would be worse than the Sampson debacle)). No, I seriously doubt Crean is done recruiting in 2013 (though IU wants Vonleh more than Anya, of course). And the potential ramifications of that scare me. I think that was clear in previous posts.

Yes, all one has to do is watch Harden to know he's damn good. That was the case in AAU/high school, college, and the NBA. He's been significantly better than Lamb at the first two stops and I see little reason that changes in the NBA. (Yes, I know there is a journeyman and two draft picks also in the trade.)