sporrer17

I voted for Scott Moore. I feel the overall numbers he has put up are good by themselves, but his performance in the Southern League All-Star game and being named the best defensive 3b in the league also play into that a lot. He's hitting for power (20 HR), decent average (.275 ish) and taking walks at a decent rate (.350 OBP...more than 1 walk/10 ABs). He's also got 12 SB. If he develops a little bit of consistancy, he's going to become an amazing player.

I want him to do what he can do...mash. If it means we have to settle for him hitting 6th/7th and playing a great RF (which is what we have now, save for Jones' throwing arm) then so be it. He may never be that 3/4/5 hitter that we expected with the #6 pick overall....but if he turns out to be a .250, 30 HR type...I'm fine with him playing RF for us.

I'm thinking more along the lines of Richie Sexon with less OBP and more speed and good defense. He could be the .250-.260, 35-40 HR guy.

Props to Ryan Harvey for turning a truely awful season into something he can build on going into next year. He can still finish in the .250-.260 range, with 20 HR and 80-85 RBI. That's a good minor league season...he's never been a high average type. If he gets moved up to AA next year and repeats these numbers (or improves to .270ish) I'll be satisfied. I could care less about K/BB or whatever. He's a masher...he's the type of player who hits 4th/5th on a team and just crushes the ball...and plays a great RF.

It's either settle for Ronny/Theriot at 2b hitting 8th or get some pop at 2b and have a 2b capable of hitting 5/6 in a lineup. That gives the lineup a lot of flexibility. Pierre CF Murton LF Barrett C Lee 1b Ramirez 3b Jones RF Cantu 2b Izturis/Cedeno SS If you do that, you have pop going from 3-7, with Murton developing some power as he goes. He had 4 HR in 250 ABs before the break, and has 4 in about 75 AB since then. He'll be a 15-20 HR guy before you know it.

You can't really judge them on their limited major league totals. However, you can look at minor leaue totals. Theriot, while always being old for his league has career numbers of .265 .355 .331 While the OBP is solid, the slugging leaves much to be desired. Those are his 5 previous seasons, not including this year. Cedeno, while being young for his leagues has career numbersof .265 319 .376 Obviously the OBP leaves MUCH to be desired. With his slightly higher SLG, his OPS edges Theriot .692 to .686. As 2B I don't see either of these guys being anything other than career backups. Cedeno has had one great season(between AAA and MLB) one decent season (AA) and everything else has been bad. Theriot, while showing great plate discipline for the past 4 years has never really had acceptable SLG numbers other than last year at AA. With the right coach and a switch back to SS, Cedeno could become a starter. Unless Theriot develops power next year at the age of 27, hes just a backup. Fotenot's minor league numbers make him look capable of being a .800 OPS player. He has been a AAA player for three years now and will like Theriot be 27 next season. Maybe he's the best 2B prospect of the three, but he needs to be given a chance soon. Maybe they will all just brige the gap for Patterson, but he has not lived up to the hype of last year. Theriot only a few years (2-3?) started hitting right handed full-time...I believe he was an experimental switch hitter before that...you can basically throw those stats out.

If you look at the numbers, we've had 105 HR on the year as a club. 13 have come from players at 1b...just ASSUMING Lee is healthy and has 25 by this point (not unrealistic), there's an extra 12 HRs, putting us at 117 and officially right smack dab in the middle of the pack as far as HRs go. Add that to the fact that we get no power from CF/2b/SS...and if you can even get 10-15 out of ONE of those spots, we'd probably be closing in on the top 10... This can't all be put on Murton.

Ideally we'd go out and get some pop at 2b/CF/ss...but to be fair, there won't be a ton of power hitting middle IFs or CFs available. If Andruw Jones does become available by some stroke of luck...go do what it takes to get him, including dealing Pie. Same for Tejada. If you can add a SS/CF capable of hitting 3-5, you do it. Then with Izturis/Cedeno filling out the other IF spot, and Murton in LF...you may have yourself a team. I'd prefer the power to come from the IF though, to allow Pierre to stick around. Hendry is going to have to get creative. Oh...and if Phil Nevin wants to return knowing he will be used in a platoon role (with Jacque Jones) and to backup 1b/LF/C/3b...I want him back, no questions asked. If we decide during the year that Murton's lack of pop is absolutely killing us, plug Nevin in there. He could be huge off the bench.

Murton is capable of driving in runs. He was hitting in the middle of the order throughout most of his minor league career. He's got a high enough average and OBP to even consider hitting 1st or 2nd if we can get some pop out of 2b/CF. Murton has been hitting 7th a lot this year, not many RBI chances there, especially with our team. He's been great hitting 6th (.368/.448/.500/.948 with a 10/8 BB-K ratio and 13 RBI in 76 AB). He's a .342 hitter "close and late". He's got a .944 OPS with runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs. I don't think the run-producing spots are unfamiliar to Matt. He hit 4th once earlier this year, and he went 2-4 with a HR and 2 RBIs. He even hit 3rd (1-3, 2b, HBP). He doesn't seem to be bothered by hitting in those spots, and in fact has thrived in the 3-6 spots. In 134 ABs between 3rd and 6th in the lineup, Murton is hitting .336. In 154 ABs hitting 2nd, 7th, 8th, or 9th...he's hitting .253. Again, Murton's lack of power (which *WILL* come around by 2008) is not an issue if we are getting ANY pop out of 2b/SS/CF at all. Not to mention, we haven't had a lot from 1b either, since Lee's been out.

But you have to consider Guzman's upside as well. He's only what, 21? He's producing in AAA at the age of 21, he's 6'6, 250, and he's got okay speed (9 SB). I am under the impression that if we are going to go into next year without Ramirez at 3b, then we may as well call it a "rebuilding" year. Get Guzman for 3b/LF and go after some prospects from the Angels for Ramirez. If we do plan on doing that though, Pie should be playing CF, Murton in LF/RF, and Jones/Pierre/Walker need to be gone.

Maddux and Guzman/Hill for Joel Guzman. Then I guess we go into next year assuming Joel will play LF for the Cubs, or maybe play 3b if Ramirez is gone? His power potential would be nice to have in the lineup at his price.

Good point. I never really looked at it that way. I guess we've always been in contention or at least close in Hendry's tenure. Hopefully he can work some more trade magic, as the last few he's made have been mediocre at best.

It would make too much sense...trade a player who may not be here next year and doesn't hustle for a young potentially great arm and a prospect or two. It won't happen. Hendry usually gets the trades done, but doesn't usually trade for prospects for some reason. I still don't know how we got Murton in that deal.

The cubs are not just "giving away" Ramirez. They are getitng a pretty solid starter in Ervin Santana. A very solid YOUNG starter like Santana is not 'giving away' Ramirez. He's what, 23? He'd be our #2 this year. A staff of Zambrano, Santana, Prior, Marshall/Marmol, Zito/Schmidt/FA would be a HUGE step in the right direction.

Ramirez and Rich Hill for Aybar, Santana, and McPherson. Maddux and a mid-level prospect for Andre Ethier/Andy LaRoche. There you can get a solid SS (move Aybar/Cedeno to 2b), a #2/3 starter, a LH hitting 3b who's fairly young and has some pop...and then hopefully Ethier for the OF to add some offense in LF. Pierre Ethier Barrett Lee Jones McPherson Aybar Cedeno At least it's an exciting team. If you get LaRoche in the deal, you could turn around and offer a package around him for a proven slugger in either LF or 3b. Maybe go after Aubrey Huff at 3b? The point is, it opens up a world of possibilities that don't exist unless we start some wheeling and dealing. You could even sign Carlos Lee and deal Jacque Jones (or put him in CF) for some pitching help.

That's part of that "late bloomer" thing. A lot of college kids are pretty much up to their full frame after 2-3 years at a major college program such as Clemson. He's 6'3, 190. He could easily play at anywhere from 210-220 with his frame, from what I've seen. With size comes strength, with strength comes power, with power comes SLG and HR. If he keeps his decent speed and adds pop to maybe become a 25-30 HR type, he could play a very good LF, but sticking in CF that's all-star potential. However, we're a looooooooong way from the bigs here, I'd like to see him repeat this in Peoria first :lol:

I made that comparison back when he was drafted in one of the Draft forum threads. An average power, average speed, okay average type of CF who can hold his own...I'd take it. .290/.340/.450 with 15-20 HR and 15-20 SB...not a bad player. If this stretch is any indication, he could definitely be one of those "late bloomers" who ends up doing much better than initially projected.

We've had some talented young players, but we always seem to have that one aging vet who's way past his prime (or was never any good anyway) playing in front of them. The problem is everyone expects a rookie to come in and produce like he's a 5 year vet and has been around the block a few times. This is an ADJUSTMENT period...the ones that adjust usually come on strong in year 2-3 of starting full-time, and the one's that don't...well ask Kevin Orie. The positives I am going to take from this year...as of right now, Murton seems to be bouncing back from a very difficult stretch. That's a GREAT sign, he's figuring things out, he's still taking walks at a fairly good rate (.350+ OBP) and he's still very young. We've had some starters (and relievers) get some very valuable experience for next year. They may not be relied upon as full-time starters, but the experience is there so that they won't be as bad if they are thrust into duty again next year.

TyCo is locked in. Call him up immediately...he's a top 15 pick, he's 20 years old, he'll be fine in Low-A ball. I generally agree with the Cubs slow-and-steady approach to hitters...but this is one time I hope they go against that.

How long til the corner OFs at Boise get moved up? (Colvin and Joseph) Colvin, although he started poorly, has been on fire, and Joseph's been doing it all year.

You can take it like that, too. I think of raw power as more like not developed yet as far as numbers go. Felix Pie has good "raw power" but has never put up great HR totals (save for half a season at AA). He's still a decent hitter though. He's got enough power to hit a good # of HRs...some of his HRs have been pretty big shots before, and going back to his college/early minor league days, he's been in a few HR derbys and done quite well I believe. A guy can be a good hitter with raw power...and not put up many HRs/XBHs. Sometime it takes a while for batting practice power to translate to game power (if it does at all). Look at a guy like Bill Hall of the Brewers...only once in his minor league career did he ever hit double digit HRs...and he's got 18 in 308 ABs this year. Murton could be completely different and be maxed out on power. I believe, judged on his swing, build, and youth, that his power will at least be in the 17-21 HR range at some point in the next few years. He also showed good pop last year in the majors (7 HR in 140 ABs). Those numbers projected out over a full season give him 25 in 500 ABs. I don't think it's out of the question at all for him to develop power over the next few years.

I am not sure about everyone else, but I see Murton with pretty decent raw power, and he's got pretty solid opposite field power IMO. His power right now may be only around 10 HRs/year, but I can see him developing that power as he gets more used to the league. Maybe I'm just a Murton fan though :lol: Even if he does hover around the .290/.370/.420 mark for a few more years before developing power, he can at least hang around as the 4th OF/platoon partner for Jones.

I am in the court of believing Murton won't ever have tremendous power, probably tops out around 20-25 in his prime...which is not bad at all. However, if you can get a little more pop from CF/2b/SS, then you have to do it. There aren't a ton of power hitters at those spots, which presents a problem. LF is basically the only spot in our lineup that we can add some pop without benching a big contract. I want Murton to be our everyday LF...but if we have to add a LF with power, I'll live. Murton shouldn't be traded though, as he still makes a great 4th OF who is young and cheap. Worst case scenario, he is getting 200-250 ABs just from pinch hitting/spot starting/platooning in the OF.

Lee, Ramirez, ARod all in the same IF

Alfred Joseph with another multi-hit game.