back2backjax

I've been saying all along that the Cubs should go to battle with what they have an not mortgage the farm system for a short-term fix. They have enough talent now that IF - and I know it's a big IF - they have one of those Angels/Marlins/White Sox-type years where people stay healthy and certain guys (Pierre, Cedeno, Murton) play at or above themselves, they can compete for the Wild Card and possibly the division. I may be a little off, but I believe the salaries above ARE NOT guaranteed by the Cubs beyond 2006. Of course certain players will be due raises etc., but the team should have $20-25 million to spend on FAs in 2007. Can someone provide a list of those who will be available perhaps at the midseason (if their team is out of it) or at least next offseason.

i can't imagine bedard for prior being the holdup. something tells me prior will be the centerpiece of the deal from the Os standpoint with them wanting more to compensate for losing bedard than corey and walker. i really think some are making too much of prior's past health issues. he's had arm problems to begin two seasons but rebounded well from both instances and it's not like u can blame him for a collision with giles and taking a line drive off the elbow. perhaps he's doing something wrong to start ST, but i'd rather figure that out than trade him. just deal walker if that's what you have to do, but leave the pitching staff alone for god's sake and let's see what it's like to have a healthy rotation to begin the season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/12/25/report.phone.card.scam/index.html does this affect a possible trade for him at all?

his attitude and how it would affect his relationship with the cubs org is what i was referring to. so if this is really what's happened - we offered him up - does JH have to see a trade of some sort thru having burned bridges, or can he patch things up?

if the tejada trade doesn't happen, what will be the repercussions of throwing his name into trade talks? i ask because we know what it did to garciaparra a couple of years back. having thrown his name into these talks, is it a foregone conclusion that he will now be traded?

dunn - no effin way lugo - not a significant enough upgrade from cedeno. young isn't proven. teixeira - seriously doubt rangers would part with him abreu - not a bad idea tejada and bedard - a nice bat and LHP, not bad a-rod - no freakin way

no thanks.

question: would you rather trade prior for tejada or abreu?

let's see...the bullpen cost us at least 10, and maybe 15, games last year? we had no leadoff hitter and no one to steal bases. prior takes a line drive off the elbow and misses an additional month of action. wood makes all of 10 starts and LF was essentially non-existent most of the year. so hendry goes out and overpays to fix the bullpen - and you simply can't argue with him signing the two best setup men available; signs a true leadoff hitter, something the cubs didn't have in 04 or 05; we're expecting prior to be healty all season and wood to be healthy for most, if not, all of the season; and murton figures to give us at least a .270 avg in LF...AND YOU SEE JUST A 5 GAME IMPROVEMENT? talk about seeing the glass as half empty. i understand that all of us wanted hendry to make an additional deal or two, but some of us are coming on here and acting like we're trotting out the pirates or royals lineup next season. i'm sure hendry has explored every possible trade he thinks would make his team better, but it takes two to dance. he overpaid to get eyre, howry and pierre and it's likely potential trade partners are wanting him to do the same thing in current discussions. given how crappy this offseason's FA market was, i'd much rather hit the field with what we've got now, see how things go and assess who's available at midseason or next offseason when more talent will be available.

huge shock.

it's nice to hear one somewhat optimistic voice. seems like most people won't be content until the lineup looks like the team the dominican republic will field for the world baseball classic.

OK, so the 2005 offseason hasn't been especially terrific, but it's not like all NL teams have made significant moves. only the dodgers, mets and blue jays have gone crazy with FAs. let's face it, the 2005 FA crop was weak. so i have no problem with the fact that we chose not to trade the farm for one or two people. shoring up the bullpen was priority #1 and finding a leadoff man was priority #2. hendry accomplished both. sure it would have been nice to get tejada or abreu or giles, but hell, it's not like any GM in baseball can get every player they want. only coach K can do that. so to the point of my thread: i like the 2006 cubs lineup. there are some "ifs", but who among us expected the white sox to be so dominant last season? indulge me for a moment... jones should give us about what burnitz gave us in RF last season and pierre and murton should easily outdo what we got from CF and LF in 2005. cedeno is really the only unknown in the IF, but he should hit .260-.275 which is about where neifi was last year. walker should be at or near .300 as usual and lee and ramirez should give us a typical .290/30-35/100-110 season. if the starters stay healthy (i.e. no line drives off anyone's arm) and howry and eyre perform as expected, we'll win 10 more games than last year. but if things really come together and we get some clutch hitting or a better than expected season from murton, cedeno or jones, then we could win 90-95 games. the astros havent done anything (yet) to improve their team and the cardinals have made minor moves. i can definitely see this team competing for the wild card, that is if dusty's team will finally show the ability to play solid D and play sound baseball. that's the biggest IF of all. so before everyone throws this team under the bus, let's give the guys hendry's assembled the chance to show what they can do.

i love that MSNBC's headline says "cubs sign one of top free agent outfielders". kind of funny.

if hendry wants to sign pierre to a multiyear deal, and jones has a 3-year deal and murton is ours for the foreseeable future, where does pie fit in? suppose he comes out of the gate strong, do you leave him in the minors for the hell of it? what about FAs next season? is jones, pierre, murton our OF for the next 2/3 years or would we move any of the three in the right deal? is jones really going to give us $5M+ more production in RF than corey would have? i think he has to hit .290 with 90 RBIs for that to be the case...thoughts?

I agree. Hendry would be smart to trade Pie to get Tejada and have Cedeno at 2B and EPatt as trade bait. i don't like idea of trading epatt. he and cedeno could be a pretty nasty 1-2/middle infield combination one day, especially if pie develops some power as a CF or COF.

the guy is hitting .362 in winter ball. http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051216&content_id=1283010&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

been saying this all along... go with patterson in right and see what he's done with his game in the offseason. if it's the same old story, broker a deal at the deadline and use the $$ you would give jones on a big name player since more talent will be available in july than is now. $5M in additional payroll for a guy who isn't that much (if any) of an upgrade to what we already have. jim, to quote a fellow poster, you've got two strikes and you're check swinging...

not sure how much we would like manny's adventures in left where the well has been known to humble even those who ARE good at flashing the leather. i could see a lot of doubles becoming triples with manny in left. also, trading walker means plugging neifi in at 2B and putting a so-so guy in RF. seems like adding a little thunder to lineup creates some problems elsewhere.

this team wasn't a batting order spot away from contention, it was a philosophy away from contention. not enough men on base total, not enough runs. we can acquire all the speed in the world, all the bunters in the league, all the "gritty, timely hitters" in existence, but if you can't get on base with consistency, you can't score runs. OBP is the most important stat there is, but people seem to be ignoring it. i didn't say that the leadoff spot was alone the reason the team didn't contend. if you're going to quote me, please be accurate. i said that two huge problems for the team in 2005 have been addressed. sure there is more that could be done, but right away the team should be better.

of course you can't plan for it, but reality is that's what you need to win. you don't need a home-run hitting OF...we had that with alou and sosa in 2004 and look how that season ended. despite what many think, last year's team wasn't that far away from contending. an improved bullpen and a good leadoff hitter will go along way toward making the team more competitive in 2006. if murton gives some production from LF (which we had none of last year) and the starters stay healthy (i.e., no line drives off prior, wood's surgery is succesful), this team could, nay SHOULD, contend.

of course you can't plan for it, but reality is that's what you need to win. you don't need a home-run hitting OF...we had that with alou and sosa in 2004 and look how that season ended. despite what many think, last year's team wasn't that far away from contending. an improved bullpen and a good leadoff hitter will go along way toward making the team more competitive in 2006. if murton gives some production from LF (which we had none of last year) and the starters stay healthy (i.e., no line drives off prior, wood's surgery is succesful), this team could, nay SHOULD, contend.

ok, then who is available? the only possibilities we're hearing are huff, wilson, encarnacion, jones. seriously, are either of those guys that great? it's not like we're choosing between vlad and corey. huff is a huge liability defensively whereas corey would run down a ton of gappers. we don't necessarily need power from the OF slots, we need timely hitting. the white sox weren't exactly the 27 yankees with podsednik, rowand and dye with just 43 homers among them. 2005 turned out OK for them because they had great pitching and we SHOULD have that in 2006. if pierre hits above .280, that's a lot of RBI chances for walker, lee, ramirez and barrett, and i'm confident they will get him home. if murton hits above .280 (which is very likely), then that's even more RBIs considering the guys ahead of him will all hit near or above .300. offensively, murton, pierre and patterson have above average speed. if pierre can help corey with slapping the ball to left and/or stealing when he does get on, then watch out. remember that we had luis gonzalez once upon a time and traded him away because things didn't click soon enough with him. when he opened his stance, he was a different ballplayer. i'm in no way saying we should give corey endless opportunities, but i just don't think the market is good enough right now to throw away a guy who still can blossom into a very good ballplayer for a guy who HAS blossomed and isn't much better than what you already have. save the $$ and/or prospects you'd have to give up to get one of the aforementioned players and save it for a midseason deal should corey have a poor 1st half (or if someone who could really improve the team comes along).

i like the idea of patterson in right and here's why: - with murton something of a D liability in left, pierre and patterson would gobble up everything possible between LCF and RF. That's a definite plus. - patterson's bat and speed at the bottom of the order could be huge. - if patterson doesn't cut it during the first half, JH would have plenty of $$ to spend at the trade deadline by not wasting $5M a year on a patterson clone like jacque jones. bigger names will be available by then anyway. - the idea of carlos lee being available in 07 is a nice one.

why are so many people against giving cedeno a chance to show what he can do? he performed well until he got hurt a year ago and has a great glove. why go acquire a late-30s SS who may hit only 10-15 pts higher than what you already have and further stunt the development a pretty good looking young SS? furcal was a known quantity and probably will have a significantly better 06 than walker so getting him made sense considering you could move cedeno to 2B and not give up anything. i don't want lugo, vizquel or any other second-rate SS. let's roll with cedeno and walker and see what happens.

i was only responding to someone on the other thread (that is now locked) who noted i started a thread. like i said, yes i did...when it warranted discussion.