USSoccer

I'm disappointed. I've seen so many people claim Farnsy imploded (or exploded or flat out sucked) in that game that I wanted to see someone justify it in the face of the play by play. I guess giving up one hit means you stink on ice these days. Has TrueBlueCubFan even been online yet tonight :P

If that's all we do, we won't have Giles in RF for 2006. That will need to be a player option to even come close to getting it done. How about 3/39 with a vesting option based on plate appearances? what does everyone else think bout that?I have asserted for a long time now that without a guaranteed fourth year we don't get him off the west coast. I think you are right, but didn't the poll results say we have to go less years?

If that's all we do, we won't have Giles in RF for 2006. That will need to be a player option to even come close to getting it done. How about 3/39 with a vesting option based on plate appearances?

Sounds good to me

i don't like the idea of nomar playing a corner OF spot. if we bring him back, he should play short. besides, if we get giles and trade for bradley or sign lofton, murton will play left and we won't need him. i like the idea of bringing nomar back at short, adding giles and lofton. it's simple and addresses needs. furcal would be a nice sign, but it's not necessary. I think the last thing the Cubs should do is put a guy with 2 straight years of leg injuries in a corner spot. Murton is more than capable of putting up an .800 OPS given full time in LF, and at a fraction of the cost. Nomar's only value for the Cubs would be as a SS or utility supersub.

i don't like the idea of nomar playing a corner OF spot. if we bring him back, he should play short. besides, if we get giles and trade for bradley or sign lofton, murton will play left and we won't need him. i like the idea of bringing nomar back at short, adding giles and lofton. it's simple and addresses needs. furcal would be a nice sign, but it's not necessary. I think the last thing the Cubs should do is put a guy with 2 straight years of leg injuries in a corner spot. Murton is more than capable of putting up an .800 OPS given full time in LF, and at a fraction of the cost. Nomar's only value for the Cubs would be as a SS or utility supersub.

Reporter Carolyn Hughes, from what Derek's wife has said. Yeah, she's a bimbette reporter at Fox Sports West in LA. She's not a newspaper beat writer. Google = Derek Lowe Affair Wow, that's an intense story...

There's Mazzone, Mike Maddux and everybody else.

He's no Jimmy Wynn, he's no Joe Morgan..he's not even David Eckstein. Patterson could be a 5-tool player, now he's 1(maybe). The market value in 2004 for Wood was $12 million a year? Prior won more games in 2003. Oops..I guess he should asked to be paid $20 million. Wood doesn't want to admit that Steve Stone was correct about his flawed delivery all these years. He refuses to change, just like CPatt and that's what makes me mad. I have no personal gripes about them, as I wanted them to do great for the Cubs. But they haven't adapted, while other players do. I don't think Wood cares what Steve Stone says about his mechanics, nor should he. Stone isn't his pitching coach. He's a pundit on a radio station. His opinion means nothing. Nothing. There's a reason he's never been a GM, or coach, on any level. And again, you have no idea if they "want" to do anything. That's a terrible argumentative tactic. You're assigning a trait to someone whom you don't know based on your own opinions of their performance. Are you paid for your performance at work or because you are a nice guy, in spite of your performance? . Okay, that's a question that has absoluetly nothing to do with anything in this conversation. I'm officially done with this.

He's no Jimmy Wynn, he's no Joe Morgan..he's not even David Eckstein. Patterson could be a 5-tool player, now he's 1(maybe). The market value in 2004 for Wood was $12 million a year? Prior won more games in 2003. Oops..I guess he should asked to be paid $20 million. Wood doesn't want to admit that Steve Stone was correct about his flawed delivery all these years. He refuses to change, just like CPatt and that's what makes me mad. I have no personal gripes about them, as I wanted them to do great for the Cubs. But they haven't adapted, while other players do. I don't think Wood cares what Steve Stone says about his mechanics, nor should he. Stone isn't his pitching coach. He's a pundit on a radio station. His opinion means nothing. Nothing. There's a reason he's never been a GM, or coach, on any level. And again, you have no idea if they "want" to do anything. That's a terrible argumentative tactic. You're assigning a trait to someone whom you don't know based on your own opinions of their performance.

The proof is in the stats and not pipedreams. He is a lousy bunter and a very mediocre base stealer. Whether he was never taught or doesn't want to learn, does it really matter. He's gone and someone else will be in CF. Wins for a starting pitcher is the primary way to judge the effectiveness of a starter. Anyone who tries to say different or use 'quality starts' is denying the recognized standard for starting pitching. But then some yahoos are satisfied with 14 wins at $12 million. So again, by your standard, Roger Clemens was a bad pitcher this season, and Randy Johnson was bad last year? Whatever. Ditch this noise. Call me when Wood has a Cy Young or ONE 20 win season. Lower your own standards. But that wasn't your argument. Your argument was that wins are the best indicator of success as a starting pitcher. So, since /johnson didn't win the Cy Young in 2004, and Clemens won't in 2005, I'll ask the question again: did they have bad years in 2004 and 2005, respectively?

I think we'd have bout $22m left, if my math is right...

But defense is not the reason this team didn't win enough games this year. Not saying you are wrong, but I can think of 3 games off the top of my head that the defense cost us. An improved defense should be one of our concerns, especially up the middle. Ok, you can name 3 that D cost us. I don't doubt that you can, and I'm sure they were all legit. However, about 10 come to mind right off the top of my head that lack of timely hitting cost us. Okay. Hawkins threw away the comeback line drive. That cost us one. Macias in CF against the Mets probably cost us the Zambrano Sunday night game, since the Mets ran on his "arm" at every opportunity. And that's aside from his routes to the ball. There's 2. Perez had a 2 error game in May, I think, that cost us a win. Barrett's botched rundown in Philly. There's 3. :P Not to get nitpicky, but doesn't the fact that Macias, Perez and Hawkins were playing in these games sort of give one the impression it wasn't just defense that cost us those victories? :wink: Oh yeah, that's a whole other story altogether, isn't it? :D

Conversely, if the Cubs botch this offseason they could be the 5th best team in the Central. And part of that is counting on Wood to be healthy. If Wood gives the Cubs over 180 innings this year I'll be very surprised. Yeah, Hendry really has to add a quality starting pitcher to this group, considering Wood's health and Maddux's decline.

Conversely, if the Cubs botch this offseason they could be the 5th best team in the Central.

The proof is in the stats and not pipedreams. He is a lousy bunter and a very mediocre base stealer. Whether he was never taught or doesn't want to learn, does it really matter. He's gone and someone else will be in CF. Wins for a starting pitcher is the primary way to judge the effectiveness of a starter. Anyone who tries to say different or use 'quality starts' is denying the recognized standard for starting pitching. But then some yahoos are satisfied with 14 wins at $12 million. So again, by your standard, Roger Clemens was a bad pitcher this season, and Randy Johnson was bad last year? Whatever. Ditch this noise.

Okay, I have no idea what the first part of your post means. So moving onto the rest of it... Patterson's height and speed don't preclude him from being a power hitter. There are plently of power guys shorter than 6 feet, so that's a baseless criticism. Next, how exactly do you "know" Patterson doesn't "want" do do the things you said he doesn't? Are you a beat reporter? Do you have some sort of magical insight as to the inner desires of Corey Patterson? If not, then it's more baseless criticism made by people who project what they want to be there onto the personality of an athlete. Next, Wood, again, was healthy from 2001-2003. Thus, it wasn't a "stupid" signign. Now, you can debate whether or not it was wise to give him a NTC, but the dollars were equal to his market value at the time he was extended. I'm not going to defend Corey Patterson's on field performance in 2005. He sucked. I'm also not going to say Wood's 2004-5 injuries haven't ticked me off, because they have, but this kind of hyperbole filled, ad hominem arguments slamming both of them and using supposed personality faults to back up said claims is worth nothing. It's silly bluster. You don't like either player? Cool, but if you're going to slam them in a public forum, use a better argument.

And for the record, the "Yahoo's" who are lauding "Smartball" need to realize that the White Sox hit the 4th most HR's in the AL this year-even without Lee and Ordonez-and have advanced in the playoffs thanks to overwhelmingly dominant starting pitching, and timely-*gasp*-HR's from Crede and Konerko. Don't see how that's "smartball".

I don't want them to trade Wood. I guess that makes me a yahoo huh? And Wood and C-Patt aren't even comparable. When healthy, Wood is a dominating ace (yes I know he hasn't been since Baker burned him out in 2003). When healthy, C-Patt is still just downright awful. And who would you get for C-Patt? A bag of balls? I'd rather try and get him back to some place of value and then trade him, rather than just giving him up for nothing. When healthy, Wood is WHAT? An overpaid 12 game winner? Wow, Hendry better sign him to a long term contract for about $12 million a year because we sure can't lose that kind of talent. Oh that's right..he already did. As far as CPatt, they got what they deserve. They should have adnitted he was a bust and traded him earlier in the year. Now you have nothing. Wow. Did WSCR give you your talking points? Is this one of the Johnny Interns there? For the 1 billionth time, wins and loses are the worst way to evaluate a pitcher. By that standard, Clemens in 2005 and Randy Johnson in 2004 sucked. Wood's 2003 was dominant, even though he won only 14 games. Yes, he gets hurt, and yes, that sucks, but at the time of the extension Wood had pitched in 3 straight seasons with total health. Patterson, yeah, he's done in Chicago. But a small part of the fact he's done has to do with the fact that nearly everyone in the media and fanbase have been on him for the better part of 2 years for mostly stupid reasons. "He can't be coached", "he has an atiitude problem", "he needs to bunt more". Mentally, he's shot. I don't expect him to ever be the star he was hyped to be, but I think, given a change of scenery, he could become Mike Cameron redux. Finally, if you think the Cubs could have gotten anything of value for Corey during the year, you're mad. Position player-even the ones who suck-always have more value in the offseason. This may mean he's sold for pennies on the dollar instead of a fungo bat, but it's still a smarter move. Finally, who are these "yahoos" that don't want to trade Wood and Corey? Not many peolpe here will admit to wanting Corey back unless the offense is bolstered to the point where you can bat him 8th and have his defense. Wood has a NTC, so that dampers alot of trade talk with him. Plus, you'd likely have to extend him to get him to waive it. What team will extend him coming off of an injury?

It reminds me of the Simpsons' episode where Bart tapes Lisa's appearance on the Krusty Cmeback Special and the part where she tells Martin she can't stand him. "Ooh. I think I can pause it right at the point where his heart breaks." I wish I had Tivo so I could replay the collective gasp of the crowd. Had they still been in the Astrodome, the massive fan-generated vacuum would have collapsed the roof. Not to be a nerd about it, but it was Ralph Wiggam whose heart broke.

Just barely into the Crawford boxes. You people can call me pathetic all you want, but the field is just a nightmare! If your players can't pull a couple of Pettitte pitches into those boxes over the course of 6 innings, you've got little room to talk. True, but how many of Berkman's homers have been cheapies into the front of the Crawford boxes? Too damn many. I'm with indifferent. Fields like the Child-Designed Ballpark in Houston are stupid, and bad for the game. There should be minimum required dimensions for all new parks.

But defense is not the reason this team didn't win enough games this year. Not saying you are wrong, but I can think of 3 games off the top of my head that the defense cost us. An improved defense should be one of our concerns, especially up the middle. Ok, you can name 3 that D cost us. I don't doubt that you can, and I'm sure they were all legit. However, about 10 come to mind right off the top of my head that lack of timely hitting cost us. Okay. Hawkins threw away the comeback line drive. That cost us one. Macias in CF against the Mets probably cost us the Zambrano Sunday night game, since the Mets ran on his "arm" at every opportunity. And that's aside from his routes to the ball. There's 2. Perez had a 2 error game in May, I think, that cost us a win. Barrett's botched rundown in Philly. There's 3. :P Isn't that 4? :? Apparently counting is not one of USSoccer's strong suits. :wink: Well, I am the Rich Hill of the board.

So it's the beginning of 2005, and Boston just offered me Jon Lester for Dubois...

This is awesome..

Hmm...Boston is looking for a 2B. Does anyone thnk they'd want Todd Walker back? What could we get from Boston for Walker? Shoppach?