Satch80

He seems to be at his worst when he gets off to a bad start like walking a batter or giving up a hit. Not always, but too often he slowly unraveled. He would have never been able to pull out that game that Dempster did against the Phils when he walked the bases loaded and a run in. Farns would have served up a dinger.

Farnsworth has dominant stuff except when he's not dominant. Basically, he's not predictable. Blowing a big lead in an elimination game is pretty uncloser like. He has a lot to prove in high stakes situations before he should earn top closer $$. Maybe he will get there, maybe he won't. I'm just glad we no longer have a front row seat.

I think I would have paid the 4 years for Pedro since the org. has a big payroll. The value of a Pedro going twice in a post season can't be over estimated. Esp since Schilling was doubtful. I would have signed Pedro and passed on Clement. Who needs a first half pitcher when you expect to go to post season? If Pedro doesn't make it year 3 or 4 as a starter maybe he could slip into the pen and still be valuable. Even if you have to blow off year 4, going deep into the playoffs or winning another WS. makes it worthwhile. What I would NOT have done was the Renteria contract, ridiculous for a SS with his nos. And I wouldn't have done the Varitek contract ( too old).

All we know about is the money spent on player and manager salaries and until recently, it wasn't even close to what it should have been. We have no idea what is/has been spent on player development, scouting, coaches etc. My guess is we have been an inferior team for so long because throughout the organization we have hired inferior people, people on the cheap as we have for too long bought players on the cheap. To hire the best you have to pay top dollar and the Cub's organization is not known for that. In order to put a top tier product on the field you need competence throughout the organization. The Cubs have never had that. This organization should be embarrassed at their years of futility and back seat to almost every other team that exists, new and old. It is beyond pathetic. But I do think, for the first time, there is an actual plan in place to turn the franchise around. We've been derailed the last two years by some bad luck and poor decisions but I think they're headed in the right direction. Anyway, no point in bailing out now. We've been through enough futility, time to reap some rewards.

"Francouer doesn't have plate discipline and it's going to catch up to him. " Possibly. But then there are exceptions like Vlade ( his hero) and some other very successful free swingers. But my point in bringing up the disciplne thing with Francoeur was that just because you end up with swing-at-everything players like Francoeur and Corey doesn't mean that's the Organizational philosophy. Most hitting coaches probably try to teach plate discipline at every level in every organization, but it's up to the player to adapt if they can. And that's where Organizational philosophies in drafting play a huge part in what type of player we end up with. In the Moneyball book, Beane states that he DRAFTS discipline hitters because this is a trait that cannot be effectively taught. So if an organization is paying more attention to tools or power and little attention to plate discipline then it's very possible to end up with players like Corey, with little plate discipline, not because it's not taught in our minor system, but because it can't be effectively learned. If you don't draft 'em, you don't get 'em. Boston probably drafted Murton with that aspect in mind. Without a sabermetrically oriented Organization this probably won't change. I don't have a problem with not having homegrown positional players in our lineup as long as we are drafting enough useful trading chips to upgrade our team and I think we have. St Louis has used this approach very effectively over the years. They have only Pujols and Molina from their system and Molina just this year. Probably the reason we have not drafted any super star type position player is that we have concentrated on pitching and I think that's the best approach. It is very very difficult to get top tier pitching unless you grow them yourself or spend megabucks on high risk FA. Just look at the Yankees. This is the model Atlanta started with and obviously proved very successful. Only in later years did they have to concentrate on drafting position players because success means drafting lower and lower and top tier pitchers are taken first. I think Hendry has the right idea. Draft and develop pitchers, plug in bats, use minor level arms and position players as trade bait. The problem has been injuries to these elite pitchers, an unlucky signing ( Nomar), not enough emphasis on defense, a Corey collapse, a grab bag bullpen and some poor managerial decisions ( Dusty). Most of these can be corrected. Injuries, of course, not included. Bottom line, I still feel good about the Cub's direction, and Hendry guiding the ship. I'm worried about Dusty because some of his decisions were absolutely beyond dumb, such as Corey/Nefi batting 1-2, Hawkins as closer, Holly an everyday player, Macias starting, etc. The only way around this is for Hendry to construct a lineup written in granite that stays healthy. Not likely to happen, so I'll worry about Dusty every season until he is gone.

I'm not convinced about the plate discipline argument. Francouer, Atlanta's best prospect came to the majors with absolutely NO plate discipline. So...do they not teach it in the Atlanta system either? Maybe it's more about the player. Eric Patterson has it Corey Patterson doesn't. Bobby Hill and Choi, two major prospects still haven't been able to be developed to their "potential" by other teams. Maybe their potential isn't what we thought it was. We have concentrated on drafting and developing pitching. We have fronline starters in Wood, Prior and Z. All home grown. We are not at the mercy of paying inflated $$$ for overpriced pitching on the free agent market. How many other teams can say that? Indirectly, we acquired Murton for Beltran ( homegrown). Hill ( homegrown) was part of what brought us Aramis and Choi ( homegrown) brought us Lee. I would say that's 3 homegrowners that really uphgraded our team.What more can you ask? Mitre, Weurtz, Welleyeyer, Hill, Novoa ( for homegrown Farnsworth) are all pitchers with good stuff that need to learn consistency in the majors. Some do, some never do, some take time. ( Like Garland) But the prospects are there and developing. The Cub's farm system doesn't seem too bad.

I don't think it's unreasonable to reserve a decision on Murton. Hendry is implying that he must continue to improve his defense ( and he is) and he needs to work hard in the off season to compete for the job in the spring. It's not going to be handed to him. Murton is hitting .380 (71 AB) against LHP and only .261 ( 69 AB) against RHP. Dusty platooned him for quite awhile, starting him only against LHP so his BA reflects equal AB against both. That won't be the case if he's the starter so we probably can't expect a .321 average. If his power continues to improve, the Cubs probably feel they can accept a .280-.290 hitter with average minus defense at the corner spot. One other note: Murton hit .258 Day games (26) and .378 Night games (25). Ouch! But Dusty's recent comment that you can't have poor defense in the infield because so many balls are hit there imply that the bats of Walker and Nomar are gone. Offense is going to have to come more from 1st,3rd and OF. Not sure what they plan to do about C but they certainly are going to rely on OF offense next year. This means that they probably will accept a bit of shakey defense from Murton but he's going to have to hit . If he can't hit RHP better than .261 and can't hit with corner power he'll find himself becoming a platoon player.

Corey is likely finished as a Cub and should be. For one thing, he seems to be uncoachable within the Cub's organization. No one has gotten through. He continues with the same failed approach over and over. Also, I think the fan base and organization both question his committment to the game. Tonight, failing to run out a strikeout when the ball goes to the wall is inexcusable and an example of spacing out. His lack of desire to play winter ball when his game has collapsed and needs work desperately shows little committment. Corey will continue to be booed at Wrigley. This won't help either. He needs to be gone.

"Furcal and Cedeno would not be a good offensive combo up the middle." True, but it would be a very good defensive combo. Preventing runs works also.

If Cedeno works out ok at 2nd during winter ball, he'll play 2nd and Walker will be gone. Dusty/Hendry aren't happy that we're so poor on the defensive stats. We have almost no range in the infield with Aramis, Nomar and Walker. Plus a terrible DP combo. Aramis isn't going anywhere. But Nomar ( and his injuries) and Walker are expendable. I think Hendry will try to sign Furcal and if he gets him, play Cedeno at 2nd. This takes care of leadoff and improving defense up the middle. If he doesn't get Furcal it's possible he'll take one more shot at Nomar and play Cedeno at 2nd. I just don't see Walker starting at 2nd next year unless Cedeno bombs during winter ball. Not because of his mouth but because of his slow feet and poor hands.

I watched every 2003 game and if your definition of "dominant" is a Farnsworth fastball, then no, he wasn't dominant. But if "dominant"means getting the job done, spotting his fastball and getting them to chase good breaking pitches, staying cool, not walking batters and giving up dingers, then he was a dominant closer. I remember him closing games against the St Louis heart of the order under a lot of pressure and getting it done. Joe's shoulder caused a loss of velocity. In 2003 his FB was decent and his slider was sharp. That's not smoke and mirrors.

Failing to cover first, to execute rundowns, to get bunts down, to run bases properly, to hit the cut off man., to block balls in the dirt, .to throw to the right bases....all failure in fundamentals. Swinging for the fences with two strikes, 3 batters making 1 pitch outs, swinging at the first pitch when the pitcher has walked the last two batters...all examples of thoughtless baseball. Yes, the Cub hitters need to walk more and their pitchers need to walk less but as long as at least some of the above is not corrected, at least in frequency of occurance, the Cubs will not play winning baseball. Players need to be held accountable for lack of focus, lapses and thoughtless/selfish baseball by placing their butts on the bench for a game or two to clear their head. Of course players on other teams make mistakes. I get MLB Extra Innings and watch a ton of baseball. I see them. But I certainly don't see it on winning teams to the extent we see this on the Cubs day after day. No way.

First of all, I don't think it Barrett Bashing to state the obvious. He is a poor defensive catcher. I like Barrett, in fact, Walker also. they're gamers who come to play every day and there's a lot to be said for that. But let's put a few fielding stats into perspective. I'll compare Barrett to someone we all agree has the best D, Ivan Rodriguez, and then to a young D catcher that the Cards ( who always value defense at catcher)have, Yadier Molina. 2005 Source: ESPN MLB Defensive stats. SB against Rodriguez 26 Y Molina 12 Barrett 64 CS % Rodriguez .567 Y Molina .657 Barrett .229 Granted, I am comparing him to the best older and younger defensive catchers but it should be obvious that Barret is not average in these departments. In fact, I could only find 2 catchers (Kendall and V Martinez) with worse stats in this department. These stats can be easilly quantified, but there are many that cannot. We have all seen Barrett make poor decisions, fail to block balls in the dirt, fail to block home plate properly, and fail to take charge on the infeld. I love a hitting catcher because it removes a dead spot in the lineup and I personally was happy about his signing. But after watching almost every Cub game the last two years I am convinced that his bat is less an asset than we think.

Strong defense up the middle is not a new idea that's overvalued. It's been important from day one. Catcher and middle infielders are involved in a ton of plays. If they can't catch the ball. throw the ball and make good decisions you're not going to win many games. Barrett is a liability behind the plate. He has trouble blocking balls in the dirt, throwing out runners, making plays at the plate and I'm not sure he's much good at framing pitches and calling games. Prior and Z prefer the 2nd string catcher. You figure it out. Yes he has a good bat for his position and if we had not also sacrificed defense for Nomar (poor range, throws) and Walker ( poor range, decisions and hands) and Aramis ( throws, slow footwork. poor range) we could probably absorb Barrett. But we can't have an entire infield with shakey defense ( except Lee) and expect to win. It just aint done.

I think it's possible to be proud of a pro team that's short on talent yet finished in the running by overachieving, just as it is possible to be proud of a marginal intellect that manages a "C" in a difficult course. But this team? A team that is a bottom dweller on defense, last in hitting with RISP, one of the least focused and fundamentally sound teams I've ever seen. A team that folds under pressure and blames everything but themselves. Proud of them? Ya gotta be kidding!

Mitre is effective when he keeps the ball down and gets ahead. But the MLB pitching graveyard is full of pitchers that are good when they hit their spots and pitch ahead in the count. The problem is, they can't do it consistently. That's Mitre'sproblem and it doesn't look to be getting better.

"Perhaps some of the success of the moneyball philosophy is that they've stopped asking the players to do things that they don't know how to do. " I think that's part of it. They draft players that already have the skills they value such as plate discipline, good defense, baseball IQ etc. They don't think it's possible to do much about developing these things. Fundamentals may be down in pro sports(and Dusty has the right to say this) but winning teams still field sound fundamental teams. The Sacramento Kings still pass, Dallas still makes free throws, the Spurs still defend and the Cardinals still catch the ball. This happens because the organization and coaching staff demand it and this is where Dusty refuses to go. When his players make bonehead plays does he put them through drills, bench them to clear their head? If he doesn't, the implication is that mistakes are tolerated. His constant excuses deflect the blame from his players and him to some nebulous force beyong his control. If I managed a department that made this many mistakes I would be replaced and so would anyone else. Obviously only one team can win it all so in effect every other team is a loser. But losing through lack of talent is one thing, losing through stupidity is another. I can understand the posters that are tired of the Dusty bashing because at times it does reach the absurd but on the other hand I can sympathize with the bashers. As fans, we are expected to watch and support a team that defines futility. i.e. Months of Corey/Nefi batting 1-2 Horrible fundamentals Consistent mental errors Poor pitching decisions Inappropriate use of players. Well....fans should not have to pay good money to watch this garbage and if they do, they have a right to complain. I personally didn't think the Cubs had the talent to win much of anything this year entering the season with no closer, no solid bullpen, a bench player in LF, an unknown quantity in CF and an average production in RF. And replacing Clement with Dempster or Rusch wasn't going to get it done. And once Wood and Nomar went down it was essentially a done deal. So I probably didn't get as bummed about the season as some. But if I have to watch this kind of garbage with a team I have hope for then I may also become a card carrying basher. After all....a fan can only take so much.

There's no way they'll sign Nomar for SS next season. Nomar has lost even more range and along with Aram's poor range and slow footwork we'd be even worse on D than this year. Nomar isn't really washed up, he has a bat but he's no longer reliable as an every day player.

First of all, I have NEVER heard a comment from Baker that said he HATED walks. I have heard him make comments that seemed to devalue walks. People hear what they want to hear and run with it. That includes players and message board posters. A player naturally prefers to swing the bat. If they are playing for a manager that they feel values aggression they will tend to be more aggressive. But there's a fine line between being aggressive and being stupid and unfortunately the Cubs have crossed that line too often. Dusty's recent comments about patience at the plate are not the first time he's made them in public. Search the archives during 2003 recaps during a bad offensive stretch and you'll find a rant from him about swinging at too many bad pitches. I remember that because it surprised me then. If you look at Dusty's career you will see an aggressive swinger but not a stupid one. He took his walks. Unfortunately this is not translating well to his players. I agree that this has got to change. Players need to be more responsible about discipline and either Dusty or the hitting coach needs to enforce it. Maybe with the removal of Corey it will happen. He sets an unfortunate trend. Dusty has a major flaw in regard to playing veterans. It has nothing to do with hating young players. It has to do with his hyper sensitive nature. He over identifies with the aging veteran because he went through being replaced by kids in Oakland before he thought he should have and was really hurt. LaRussa was the manager so their relationship has never been on strong footing. Dusty also does not like to teach on the job. He has said more than once " you can't teach unless they make a mistake" and he doesn't like to deal with rookie mistakes when trying to win a game. Veterans usually don't make as many ( except for this year). It is one thing to question Dusty's managerial ability based upon lineups, strategy etc. which I have done. I thought it incredulous that he would start a lineup with Corey and Nefi 1-2. The Hawkins fiasco was another, trying to force an issue that was obviously not working. I think there are many better managers than Dusty Baker. But this walk/don't walk stuff has gotten way out of hand. He never said walk . He never said don't walk. The art of listening seems to be a fading ability.

I agree with Dusty's comment. I don't think any manager should want players passive at the plate, looking for a walk instead of being aggressive IN THE STRIKE ZONE. I think that's what he was trying to say.

The league has adjusted to Corey, Corey has not adjusted to the league pitching him smarter and relying on his natural impatience. to get him out. Playing golf or taking a cruise won't help him fix his game. He needs to play winter ball and try to salvage his career whether it's with the Cubs or somewhere else.

I think Hendry is great at the "art of the deal", maybe even the best, which is a talent in itself. But I'm not sure he targets all the right players. Aramis should have been the only marginal defender signed. He is an elite offensive player . The starting rotation is supposed to be our strongest point so you have to catch the ball and make the plays without giving away extra outs and forcing extra pitches, thus neutralizing out best asset. Nomar was a poor signing not only because he had a history of fragility but he doesn't have the range to help compensate for Aramis's lack of foot speed. Plus he has problems on the throw. Walker has an excellent bat for 2B but very very poor range and poor at turning the double play. Many here think he will lead off, I don't think he will return. I think Hendry figured out a few things about defense up the middle this year. Barrett is the other poor defender, failing to block balls, make accurate throws or plays at the plate. He is signed on for next year but I think we would have been better served to have resigned Miller. This is a young, talented, difficult to catch staff that needed an experienced, steady hand. I think getting rid of Sammy and signing Burnitz was a good call. Corey's collapse wasn't in the stars but Hawkins and his problems closing and Wood and his injuries should have been. The combination of a rookie/bench player to patrol LF was a pure gamble as was Fox, Dempster and all of the AAA bullpen. When you start a season with as many uncertainties as the Cubs did, it has a way of defining the season and the injuries only cripple things further. That's pretty much what happened. The good news is, I think Hendry has realized that part of the poor fundamental play is a result of the type of players he has signed. Good defense is not only about catching the ball but knowing what to do with it once you do. It's about anticipating plays and where the ball is likely to be hit. Focus, baseball IQ. I also think he will pay more attention to OBP, contact, and speed. Whether he will be able to get what he wants is another thing but I think that's the direction he'll be looking. I have faith in Hendry. I think he learns from mistakes and is willing to correct them. This off season should be interesting.

We are going to have to pick our spots carefully where we go cheap/young. Obviously the cheap LF with the rookie/bench player platoon was horrible and coupled with Corey's down year, was a disaster. Murton and Cedeno are the two most likely choices to consider for a contending team because they have some MLB experience and yes we are a contending team as long as we have DLee, Aramis, Prior, Wood and Z. But our window isn't forever so we can't afford to throw a season away with a lot of OJT in key spots. I think Cedeno should have the SS and let Nomar go. I think the best thing this team can do for itself ( the pitching staff) is to have a good, stable, healthy DP combination all year. This means letting Walker go and trading for or signing a defensive minded 2B. Playing Cedeno will free up Nomar money to acquire an experienced, decent LF . Sammy off the books can sign the RF. Corey remains an unknown . There is a reasonable option of putting Murton in LF, and trading for/signing a RF and CF. But that's as far as we should go with rookie starters. Hendry seems committed to Barrett and that's where I disagree. He is a defensive liability which somewhat neutralizes our strength which is our starting rotation. Causing them to throw extra pitches by not framing the ball well. and dropping strike 3 fouls,. Also failing to block balls allowing runners to advance, seldom making plays at the plate or throwing accurately to second. I hope Hendry lets his contract run out and brings in a defensive catcher even if we lose some B.A. I would agree with him about keeping Dempster as closer and saving Wagner type money to upgrade the bench and the rest of the bullpen. A lot of what Hendry does with the pitching will depend upon where Kerry goes. Aramis really needs to be put in a good strength and conditioning program because he is a good candidate to break down more and more. Hendry needs to focus more on injury histories of players he signs because it's obviously becoming mentally disruptive to the team. Regardless why, it's a fact. 2006 will be a good/great year!

The question is, does high P/PA have any coorelation with production? Obviously there have been very good first ball hitters like Nomar and very good hitters that see a lot of pitches, like Boggs. I don't see the point of taking any pitch that is hittable for the sake of working the count. It may be the only pitch to hit. I have noticed that Pujols, a very very smart hitter often swings early in the count against Prior because he knows if Prior gets ahead he'll carve him up. The strategy the Braves used was actually counterproductive if they allowed Prior to get ahead over and over. They didn't hit Prior and we actually should have won that game if the mistakes weren't made. However when a pitcher nortoriously nibbles, it make sense to force him into a hitters count and make him come to you instead of swinging at pitches off the plate. Likewise, pitchers without a quality 2nd or 3rd pitch can be waited out for a fat one. I just don't think there's ever any good reason to bypass a hittable pitch for the sake of going deep into the count and most pitchers do try to get ahead early. Guess I just don't see this as a black and white situation.

I've been watching the Little League WS. I think the Cubs should hire Japan's coaching staff. Incredibly sound fundamentals!!!!