Agreed. care to back this up? His only two good years (02 and 04) he had BABIPs 70 points and 40 points lower than his LD% would have predicted as well as LOB% higher than league average and well above his other years. OK, so that suggests that during the two years that he was significantly above-average (120 ERA+ each year), he was lucky. So again - where is the evidence that he sucks? I don't necessarily think he "sucks" but is around the average to slightly below-average ranking. We could do a lot better than Lilly (Schmidt, Jennings), but we could also do worse than Lilly (Meche). If you combine that all with his propensity to give up the longball, pitching half his games in wrigley, and paying him 10-11M a year...he sucks. i dont think he was even that good in '05!