Blueheart05

Aramis lines out to Frey 1 down

Moralez strikes out looking.

2-2 on Moralez

Murton makes a running catch of McPherson's hard drive 2 down

Pierre makes a sliding catch of Mathis' bid for a basehit. 1 out

DLee strikes out looking.

Hairston groundsout to 3B. 2 down

Pierre grounds out to 1B on a 3-2 count. Z to 2B

Carlos bunts for a hit :lol:

LMAO

Maybe, maybe not... 1B is a proven position for Lee. Stick AP out in LF. There's nothing wrong with that option.

I would put Pujols in LF and DLee at firstbase. Albert has a great bat so you wouldn't take him out of the lineup (obviously) but Derrek would play 1B on my team (that's no disrespect to Pujols it's logical and it makes the team stronger defensively).

I just get the impression, from the way the Cubs talk about Williams they have issues with his motivation. I'm not judging the guy in that way. I don't pretend to be able to get inside a player's head. I'm just saying that based on how the Cubs treat certain players, it seems like they might question his motivation to be the best starter he can be. They never questioned Rusch's spot in the rotation, even though he's been just as bad. They have questioned Williams for quite some time now, and they keep openly challening him in the media to step up and take the job. They don't do that with others. They didn't tell Cedeno to step up and earn the job, I think they believe he's going all out. The Cubs held him down in the minors last year to lose weight, their first impression of him was a guy who wasn't 100% motivated. I think that sticks in their head and affects their evaluation of him. I think it was more than his weight last year; it was also his concerns about his father (and in the previous seasons it was issues about his mother's health). I think the Cubs wanted him to refocus on baseball but that doesn't mean they thought he wasn't motivated (just distracted).

It certainly does not come from the same place. There might be something about the desire to stick. But where Ryu is at and where Williams is at are completely different. Trying to crack a roster and trying to stick in the rotation after almost 400 innings in the majors are not the same place. I only see a slight difference. 383 ML innings doesn't guarantee a career (especially when he isn't pitching well). He amassed the majority of those innings in a system that isn't very rich in pitching. Jerome knows the competition is greater to stick on the Cubs staff.

I guess that's one way to look at it. When I read his quote I thought it had more to do with him wanting to be on a ML roster even if it means he loses his starting job. At this point, Williams isn't a lock to stay in the League. If the Cubs hadn't traded for him, he might still be "working things out" in the Giants' minor league system. Ryu made a very similar statement about wanting to make the team in any pitching capacity. Guys who are trying to crack the roster for the first time will do it anyway they can. Guys who have been on major league rosters for a few years generally don't take the threat of demotion like it's no big deal. It's more than this statement though. I think the Cubs have questioned his desire and motivation since he came over. I think they were disappointed in how he came into spring and how he started pitching. I think it's obvious that the Cubs have setup a number of competitions this Spring. They definitely want certain guys to show their worth but I can't say that they were disappointed in Williams coming into ST; he was being praised by all at the start of camp, and the Cubs Convention, because he reportedly lost weight. On the otherhand, I'm sure they are concerned with the way he has pitched. Again, he may have some ML service time but he's not a lock. I think his statement comes from the same place Ryu's comes from; the desire to be on a ML staff. Williams spent a good portion of last season in the minors. I'm certain that's a bigger blow to his ego than going to the bullpen.

I guess that's one way to look at it. When I read his quote I thought it had more to do with him wanting to be on a ML roster even if it means he loses his starting job. At this point, Williams isn't a lock to stay in the League. If the Cubs hadn't traded for him, he might still be "working things out" in the Giants' minor league system. Ryu made a very similar statement about wanting to make the team in any pitching capacity.

. I thought this was the random positive thoughts thread... I wasn't necessarily inviting others' positive thoughts. No? Than I take back all the good things I said. :lol:

That is not a possibility, it's a disastrous option. Pagan could start for the team. It would suck and the team would suffer because of it, but he could do it. Ryan Theriot could start at third base if Aramis walks or is injured. Neifi could start at SS. All these things could happen, and they would all suck if they did. If his future role on this team is starter it most likely means Pie is a bust and Hendry fails to field a good OF, again. All of that is yet to be seen. My point is it's a realistic possibility.

The Mets supposedly compared him to Beltran (although it was probably one overly zealous drunken scout and not the organization) and then somebody started this thread saying he's heard that before and that there is some sort of credence to that comparison. There is nothing to base that comparison on. Pagan can't hold Beltran's jock. He'll never come close to being as good as Beltran. Being a better major leaguer than minor leaguer is one thing. It wouldn't take much for Pagan to have better numbers in the majors, because his minor numbers weren't good. But talking about him being a diamond in the rough who turns into Beltran, or anything close to that is just unrealistic. LOL, you are not understanding me. I'm not saying he's the next Beltran. My point has always been that he's a backup guy who might have the opportunity (on this team) to start. I think it's very realistic to say that he may be much better than his minor league numbers suggest. From what I understand, he's played though injuries the last few years. I really only started defending the guy when he was compared to McClain. I don't think that's fair. If we're going to do that, we shouldn't even waste time with Pie because he looks a lot like Corey Patterson...

What's a bust? Can you really bust when nobody has expectations for you? People were talking about Pagan being in the Cubs starting outfield next year. While that might not be a huge stretch, given Hendry's inability to field a quality OF, it's going beyond realistic discussions of his future. I think Pagan might have a nice career as a bench player, and he might end up on a team that has to play him everyday. For now, it doesn't make much sense to do anything but just hope he can be mildly productive for this team. By "bust," I'm talking about the comparison of Pagan with Scott McClain... I can also think of scenarios where Pagan is our starting CF (it's not too far fetched). His role on the 2006 Cubs is a backup. I don't see why we can't also think about his potential future role on this team. Considering CF is not locked up for the future (and the alternative is another Minor League guy who still has holes in his game), there maybe room for Pagan as a starter next year. We're just thinking about possibilities...

I just don't see why people have to lie to themselves, and everybody else, about the likelihood of Pagan turning into a good starting position player. You can be happy for a guy to reach a lifelong dream of making a team without being delusional about his future. I don't see the point of relentlessly bashing Pagan because some are hoping he could turn out to be a decent bench guy. If he does, great, if he doesn't, we'll get rid of him and bring someone else up. Pagan's overall effect on the team is minimal in any event. I'm not really sure who said he was going to be a starting position player for us. People have compared him to Carlos Beltran. People have said "we just don't know", people have said he could turn into a good starter (whether it's on the Cubs or not is pointless). I'm not bashing Pagan, I'm discussing his future with a sense of realism, unlike those who choose to dream of him as something he's not. Pagan is actually exactly the type of player I want on the bench; young, cheap, with some talent and not a complete waste in the OBP department. I love Pagan because he's not Jose Macias. Now, they just need somebody on the bench who can be a threat from the right side. The Mets compared him to Beltran. I think the comparison was used here to accentuate his potential for diamond-in-the-rough status. I also don't see anything wrong with saying he has the potential to be better than he's shown in the Minors.

I just don't see why people have to lie to themselves, and everybody else, about the likelihood of Pagan turning into a good starting position player. You can be happy for a guy to reach a lifelong dream of making a team without being delusional about his future. I don't think that a post here, in support of Pagan, means that anyone is fooled into thinking he's the next impact player in baseball (at least not from my perspective). However, the idea that he will be a complete bust because he's just "bad" isn't right either. I'm happy for the guy and I hope he performs well for the Cubs in his limited role. Who knows, he may turn out to be a very streaky player. Let's hope his hot streak lasts into the season.

What is the opposite of that? Guys who have done nothing in the minors then turned into Carlos Beltran? Just because a guy hasn't played in the majors doesn't mean you can't have a pretty good idea of what his limitations will be in the majors. Of course not. The opposite is a player who comes into the League with little or no expectations (or strictly as a backup) but proves his worth when he's able to play everyday. He doesn't have to develop into Beltran to have value. Minor League productivity doesn't always equate to ML success.

Let the dream die, Pagen is not good. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/angel-pagan.shtml Did Angel Pagen run over your dog? Here's to hoping he does turn into Carlos Beltran, but he probably won't. No he didn't run of my dog. But he is not good. All I'm trying to do is show that. Keep hope alive, keep hope alive. He's never played in the MLs so it hard to say what he is definitively. There are guys that have outstanding projections who turn out to be busts! The opposite is true as well.

. I thought this was the random positive thoughts thread...