Tracer Bullet

I get my 6th round pick back and Rodelo gets Calvinball's 4th rounder in 2017.

Quakers gets Calvinball's R3 pick

you don't get to decide what people discuss here. you know what this topic is about. contribute positively or ignore it and gtfo. How is my side of the arguement any different than multiple posters coming at me or stating their opinion? You're an idiot the bold is the issue. or was, now your last sentence is the issue.

I'm too busy at work today to tear into this appropriately, but I'll just say that you need to read more about domestic violence, why victims don't report or retract their reports, and why they stay with abusers. It's far more important than baseball. Or his girlfriend is crazy and was reacting to possibly finding out he was texting another girl (seems childish I know). No one knows anything other than the people at the scene. It's day 3 of Chapman trade being done, move on with your lives and don't cheer him on when he's saving this team. And yea they do need saving, they really have played awful since June you don't get to decide what people discuss here. you know what this topic is about. contribute positively or ignore it and gtfo.

Players being ok with it doesn't mean much to me. Sports culture is ok with a lot things that society at large isn't, or shouldn't, be ok with. The players and the business are more important than we are. If a guy is eligible to play and is good enough to play, my guess is any team would employ him if it helps them win. The players' opinions about moral issues are not more important than anyone else's. In fact, they're probably the least important given how biased they are (as a group). I would expect the vast majority of players will be more concerned about winning than anything. They see a guy who is an awesome RP who was going to be on their team or someone else's in the playoffs, so they want him on their team. That shouldn't surprise anyone nor change anyone's perspective on whether the Cubs made the right move. If the only thing you care about is winning at all costs, then that's up to you. I don't want to win by having to employ a guy everyone knows abused his girlfriend (even what he admits, shooting a gun in his garage during or shortly after a dispute with your wife, is domestic abuse - the clear intent is intimidation and fear). I appreciate that you're at least willing to own that and talk reasonably about it, rather than try to dance around this issue.

that's not my read. I don't think he would have traded for someone who had been convicted or plead guilty to domestic violence. But he's clearly willing to play according to the rules, even if that means standing firmly on the line and leaning over as far as he can. He knows what his reputation will be if he orchestrates the teams that end the droughts for the Red Sox and Cubs. So if he can add an elite RP and dance around a little media and fan blowback, I think he's willing to do that.

Pooooooooooor Chapman!!! Won't anyone think of the man that just served a domestic violence suspension and at a minimum fired a gun eight times in his garage scaring his girlfriend into hiding in the bushes?! And, according to her initial story, choked her and pushed her against a wall? So mistreated! You were there for the whole thing and know exactly what happened? that's fascinating please continue to tell us all about it. I hate that people assume whatever a woman says to the police is 100% accurate. What he said happened and what she said happened were very different stories. I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong but Jesus you weren't there how the hell do you know what went down? Reporters weren't there either. There's a reason why the police didn't pursue the case. I don't feel sorry for either one of them, they had issues, they worked them out apparently. I don't care what happened in their personal life. Frankly I don't think anyone needs to be judging the guy. He went through the legal and baseball judgement and served a suspension. Nothing is going to change what happened. He's here now, probably only for a few months. Enjoy his pitching dominance and move on. um, no he didn't. a few cops deciding not to arrest you is not "going through the legal system." and the reason he didn't is b/c his girlfriend was scared of him and also felt dependent upon him so she wouldn't cooperate. If you cared at all about domestic abuse victims, you wouldn't have this attitude that the victim deserves no support.

Theo, what have you done https://mobile.twitter.com/clarissa_y/status/758184995252862976/photo/1

I'm not voting for anyone to be honest, Hillary is just as bad. A mod should suspend this poster for trying to start a political war in here now haha. Unreal. it'd be easier to suspend you

you get a pass. everyone in LA is a terrible person

How do we know this is fact? I know she initially said it before recanting, but has anyone else backed this up? Did Chapman admit to it? If it's just her, why are we taking her word as gospel? I don't claim to have done a ton of reading on the topic, but unless we have other witnesses agreeing, then blindly swallowing what either party says is very dangerous. given everything we know, the mental gymnastics required to think Chapman didn't put his hands around her neck look pretty silly.

horsefeathering yankees demanding schwarber. horsefeathers you cashman.

poverty is an excuse for choking your girlfriend? I think what he is saying is that what should be a great story (poverty to rich/successful athlete in America) has been ruined by his actions. oh yeah, that would have been cool

Maybe. I don't want to piss away WS chances, but it isn't like the window is rapidly closing. While I want to win it this year, if we lose this year, he walks and we win it in 2017 without him, I'd be happier in the end. The guy came from absolute poverty to the point he is now, that's what I have a hard time with. I want him to be amazing and be amazing closing games, he just isn't poverty is an excuse for choking your girlfriend?

Yeah, I've spent the better part of the past 2 days rationalizing this move to myself and feel kinda sick that I'm doing that. This guy is scum vs. god I want a WS win. Gonna be even more disheartening if we don't win it and he leaves after the season. Maybe. I don't want to piss away WS chances, but it isn't like the window is rapidly closing. While I want to win it this year, if we lose this year, he walks and we win it in 2017 without him, I'd be happier in the end.

I would probably feel differently if Chapman had gone to jail for choking and threatening a woman and then made some discernible progress toward being a better human. But we have no evidence of that and he didn't really get punished (a fine, which is basically what he got, when you make as much as Chapman does and are about to sign a huge contract isn't a real punishment). His statement doesn't indicate real remorse or even acknowledgement of what he did. I understand why he doesn't want to admit what he did, but without taking full responsibility and making any sort of positive action (donate a few million to charities that assist domestic abuse victims), then I'll continue to feel like he's a piece of [expletive]. IF he didn't do anything why would he passively admit it? His girlfriend has said it didn't happen and she stayed with him. I know that means nothing because I've had friends in terribly abusive relationships for years and none of us knew, but it's what we have to go on. No, it's not what we have to go on. We have her statement to the police that he put her hands around her neck and threatened her. Only later, as almost always happens, did she change her story and decide not to cooperate. (As others pointed out, her alternative likely was what? Return to Cuba?) If he didn't do anything, why would he accept the suspension? He didn't get suspended 30 games for breaking his own car window and shooting his garage. We also have his statement vaguely apologizing for actions. If all he did was shoot up his garage, it'd be pretty easy to apologize for that thing he's already admitted to doing and wouldn't subject him to further legal action. "I lost my temper and used poor judgment in shooting a gun in my garage. I apologize for putting people in danger by not exercising better judgment with a firearm." He's intentionally being vague because admitting to choking his girlfriend would probably get him arrested. If you want to look past domestic abuse because he pitches for your favorite team, that's up to you. But own it. My issue is with those that pretend we don't know enough or diminish his actions because they don't want to face reality.

nice post.

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the [expletive] out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works. I think the main reason for that being portrayed as a redemption story is that he has cleaned himself up and got sober, did serious time, and the 74 year old himself had gone to visit him in jail and forgave him IIRC. So people think it's cool that he's managed to clean up and salvage a little bit of a career. I hadn't heard the thing about beating the crap out of the kid with the golf club, though. I would probably feel differently if Chapman had gone to jail for choking and threatening a woman and then made some discernible progress toward being a better human. But we have no evidence of that and he didn't really get punished (a fine, which is basically what he got, when you make as much as Chapman does and are about to sign a huge contract isn't a real punishment). His statement doesn't indicate real remorse or even acknowledgement of what he did. I understand why he doesn't want to admit what he did, but without taking full responsibility and making any sort of positive action (donate a few million to charities that assist domestic abuse victims), then I'll continue to feel like he's a piece of horsefeathers.

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal? Sex offenders have to register, obviously. Sometimes they have to attend therapy, etc. but I believe that's a case-to-case basis. Murderers cop a plea for 12 years and serve 6. Maybe even less due to overcrowding. They get out on parole and as long as they don't commit any more crimes or fail any drug tests, they go about their life as normal. As far as difficulty finding a job, that can be overblown at times. There are some jobs and careers that you will be automatically eliminated from if you are a convicted felon. There are other jobs and careers where it makes no difference. There are lawyers that are convicted felons. There are lawyers that are convicted sex offenders. There are a couple of other factors besides the actual conviction that make it hard for many ex-cons to find decent long-term work. One is that many of them have spent their lives being criminals, so they have no education, no work history, and no real skills. The other is that convicted felons are not allowed to receive student loans. So, unless you're rich enough to pay out of pocket, it's not possible to go to school. Will you stop talking out your ass and just making horsefeathers up as you go? Also, Chapmand wasn't arrested, charged, or convicted. He didn't go to jail. He also has an elite skill that is worth millions. So comparing him to a murderer looking for work is stupid.

Are we positive this isn't the bum again?

well, sure, it's convenient. Deciding to watch Annie Hall on Netflix is different than walking around in a Woody Allen is Awesome t-shirt. Honest question. Not trying to gotcha you or anything like that. This occurred to me earlier today when I was reading this but I didn't get a chance to respond. I remember you being upset about the Castro trade and talking about how your son loved him and was very broken up about it. I'm just curious why you were good with Castro and why you didn't make it clear to your son that Castro was probably a bad guy. Is it just that more detail came out (as well as some admissions) about what Chapman did? It's not me wondering why Chapman is so disliked. That's obvious. I just don't understand how Starlin, who was accused of doing something potentially even worse, slipped under so many radars here. I don't recall much of the Castro allegations. They were drunk in his place after a night out? Was the allegation that he raped her? I don't remember the allegations being very specific. Here's how I see Chapman. His gf claimed he choked her and threatened her then shot up the garage. He admits to shooting, wants to reconcile with her and accepts a 30 game suspension. Look, I love my wife more than I could really express but if she lied to police and said I tried to choke her or threatened to, I wouldn't accept any reconciliation that didn't involve her admitting that lie. Why would you agree to stay with a woman that falsely accused you of what might be called attempted murder and also costs you hundreds of thousands of dollars? I guess I'm comfortable that the level of detail here, that they're trying to reconcile and that he accepted the suspension means he did it. Not being convicted bc your gf or wife won't testify is meaningless.

I 100 percent respect you for this position. But now that the Cubs are part of the problem, it feels like you too are part of the problem if you watch another game this season or do anything to support them. You're trying to guilt someone who objects to domestic violence? You are an ass. Try doesn't matter.

I like that comparison a lot, actually. well, sure, it's convenient. Deciding to watch Annie Hall on Netflix is different than walking around in a Woody Allen is Awesome t-shirt.

I mean, he literally says "I regret that I did not exercise better judgment and for that I am truly sorry". It's just words on a page so it doesn't undo anything that he did, but a small part of the irritation with Chapman was his lack of remorse. A professional hobby of mine is giving and evaluating apologies, and that's a pretty good one. It doesn't hide behind passive wording like apologize, or separate himself from the behaviors by saying he's sorry for the effects of his behavior. He's directly saying he's sorry for his (admittedly ambiguous) actions, and like Brett just pointed out on Twitter, he didn't have to do this as a guy who was traded (there's no extra motivation like a contract for him). Again, it doesn't undo anything that happened and people are still right to not be happy, but this is what handling the acquisition properly looks like given the realities of the situation. oh I'm about 99% certain he had to do this as part of the terms of the trade. I bet the Cubs insisted upon a jointly-approved, jointly-issued statement. And that's a [expletive] apology. I apologize for my actions on this date. Are you apologizing for choking your gf, who you claimed you didn't touch? Are you apologizing for shooting your gun off in your garage in frustration, which you claimed "didn't put anyone in danger." Or are you apologizing because you didn't lift the seat that morning? Knowing that some athletes are assholes b/c some percentage of all people in the world are assholes, and some of your friends and co-workers you may hate if you knew them better, etc, isn't the same as knowing and specifically setting out to acquire a guy who 7 months ago choked his gf. My favorite team today acquired a guy that I hate who hasn't really been punished (30 games off for a multi-millionaire for choking a girl and shooting a gun wildly in your garage? horsefeathers off) and wasn't remorseful at the time and hasn't clearly indicated that he owns those actions in his statement for the team. I want the Cubs to win a WS, but I'd be so much happier if it wasn't by having to do something like this. My primary frustration is I don't think adding Chapman was necessary to win the WS. And if he gets the last outs in the WS, his face will be everywhere associated with the Cubs first title in a million years and that'll suck.