nolanwood

I'd take Pierre, Castillo and Giles as our offensive pickups of the postseason this year in a heartbeat....just don't think that will be happening, though. At best, one of those three may make it to the northside. If we could get Pierre and Castillo in a trade, the fish could have their choice at any prospects in our system and I could care less.....

I'm not sure Gathright would be any upgrade over Patterson, and I'm really hoping Patterson doesn't return to CF in '06.

If Kerry has a healthy 06 season he's definitely coming back - when he's on there's not much better in MLB - and I don't consider him a 3 man when he's healthy either. I think we have 3 aces!

I'm not so sure. Clement loved Chicago and he and his wife were very close to Prior and Wood. My guess is he wouldn't mind being reunited here. I believe they also named their son "maddux" as well..... Personally, I'd love to see Clement back, however, not for that price tag.....and who knows how well he's gonna bounce back from that shot in the noggin'.

We did have two separate threads on consecutive days about Dunn coming to the Cubs. That was outta control too - I just knew Dunn was coming back to St Louis with us....oh, what a MAJOR let down that was.

I'm guessig by the way things go around here we're gonna hit 15-20 pages before we find out that Howry isnt even coming to the northside :? And yes, Tim, I would have to agree we do have an enormous gaping hole of suckage in RF - CF too, imo.

I believe you should get what you give....

I'd say the odds of Ramirez producing @ the star level would be 1/5 Sanchez, 1/9 With that being said, they could've gone after some more proven minor league talent who had remarkable seasons in '05 - and not just a bunch of hype. For that kinda deal, the fish should've gotten at least one major league caliber starter to help them out. Lowell isnt bad....has proven himself before and has that same potential....and Beckett is just entering his prime. Give him some of Moises' urine, and he would've thrown for 220 innings this year. What were the fish supposed to do? Keep Beckett? They can't. He's due the big bucks coming up and they can't afford Willis, Cabrera, and Beckett. One of them was the odd man out, and Beckett and his blisters (and shoulder problems) is the odd man out. They certainly can't afford to trade Beckett for another star due large dollars in the next 2-4 years. it's not the organizations fault the fans in Florida don't show. you may think ramirez has low odds of making it, but the scouts call him a future all-star. :wink: Yeah, I know - its a shame they cant draw half a stadium's worth of fans in Florida. That team has been pretty impressive year in / year out. I just think they could've received more in return if they played the market better and held out. And in regards to Ramirez, I heard more hype about him before his 05 #'s.... I'm glad to see Beckett outta the NL, though. Thats' for sure!

Actually, there was a poster here that claimed that 10+ for Giles with nothing left to address the other team needs was money not as well spent as picking up 2 quality relievers for 5 mil......

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent. The point is that neither vet has "proven" to be reliably exceptional across their careers. Nor have they proven to be consistently better than what we could expect from Wuertz & Ohman in 2006. Wuertz and Ohman have only had ONE quality year in the pen apiece. Not much of a sample size to go on - I like the idea of adding two more guys who have had more than ONE quality year, giving us twice as many options for stopping runs after Prior peters out with 110 pitches in the 6th, or Rusch struggles in the 6th after he came in to relieve Wood in the 2nd. Okay. You go with your proven vets in the pen at $3.5M each. I'll go with the youngsters and have enough money left over to pay for a $6M player. Or most of Brian Giles for RF. I'm sorry, but Brian Giles alone isn't going to win the Cubs many games...he can hit 2 home runs in the first 6 innings, but when Novoa comes in and blows the lead, those Brian Giles homers means nothing. We have consisently been in the upper echelon of run scoring the last few years, and it doesn't get us anywhere. On the contrary, our bullpen has sucked big time and look where that got us..... We need to protect that dominant pitching staff in the later innings, which is something we have failed to do the last couple years. :-k Cubs Rank in MLB: 2002 2003 2004 2005 Runs Scored 22 20 16 20 Bullpen Runs 25 16 15 19 I'm not sure I can agree with your point... Take a second to examine the overall pitching and offensive stats for the 4 contenders in the AL postseason this year, and you'll obtain a clearer picture of the value of offense/pitching. Blowing over 1/3 of the money we have on one outfielder isn't going to solve the problem. lol - If you look at the stats of the AL playoff teams in other years it tells a different story. So what? Baseball is a simple game. You have to score more than the other team. Scoring runs = 50%, preventing runs = 50%. Preventing runs is split between pitching and defense. Pitching is split between starting (majority) and bullpen (minority). The bullpen is split between 6-7 guys (under Dusty). Spending $3M on a single reliever isn't the answer, either. The $10M on the OF will help a heck of a lot more. LOL Nice argument. Very persuasive. There was obviously no attempt at further argument - no need for any smartass remarks pal. We're seeing this from difference sides, buddy, and it is apparent. I'm a cub fan, just like you, and we both want the same thing - a team that wins. There's no need to persue it any longer.... Thanks! I see. So you can try to end the argument by using a belittling "LOL". But you get touchy when there's a comeback. Gotcha. Noted for future conversations. Have a nice night! No.....I just show up when there's some action around here and try to stir crap with fellow cub fans.....

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent. The point is that neither vet has "proven" to be reliably exceptional across their careers. Nor have they proven to be consistently better than what we could expect from Wuertz & Ohman in 2006. Wuertz and Ohman have only had ONE quality year in the pen apiece. Not much of a sample size to go on - I like the idea of adding two more guys who have had more than ONE quality year, giving us twice as many options for stopping runs after Prior peters out with 110 pitches in the 6th, or Rusch struggles in the 6th after he came in to relieve Wood in the 2nd. Okay. You go with your proven vets in the pen at $3.5M each. I'll go with the youngsters and have enough money left over to pay for a $6M player. Or most of Brian Giles for RF. I'm sorry, but Brian Giles alone isn't going to win the Cubs many games...he can hit 2 home runs in the first 6 innings, but when Novoa comes in and blows the lead, those Brian Giles homers means nothing. We have consisently been in the upper echelon of run scoring the last few years, and it doesn't get us anywhere. On the contrary, our bullpen has sucked big time and look where that got us..... We need to protect that dominant pitching staff in the later innings, which is something we have failed to do the last couple years. :-k Cubs Rank in MLB: 2002 2003 2004 2005 Runs Scored 22 20 16 20 Bullpen Runs 25 16 15 19 I'm not sure I can agree with your point... Take a second to examine the overall pitching and offensive stats for the 4 contenders in the AL postseason this year, and you'll obtain a clearer picture of the value of offense/pitching. Blowing over 1/3 of the money we have on one outfielder isn't going to solve the problem. lol - If you look at the stats of the AL playoff teams in other years it tells a different story. So what? Baseball is a simple game. You have to score more than the other team. Scoring runs = 50%, preventing runs = 50%. Preventing runs is split between pitching and defense. Pitching is split between starting (majority) and bullpen (minority). The bullpen is split between 6-7 guys (under Dusty). Spending $3M on a single reliever isn't the answer, either. The $10M on the OF will help a heck of a lot more. LOL Nice argument. Very persuasive. There was obviously no attempt at further argument - no need for any smartass remarks pal. We're seeing this from difference sides, and it is apparent. I'm a cub fan, just like you, and we both want the same thing - a team that wins. There's no need to persue it any longer.... Thanks!

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent. The point is that neither vet has "proven" to be reliably exceptional across their careers. Nor have they proven to be consistently better than what we could expect from Wuertz & Ohman in 2006. Wuertz and Ohman have only had ONE quality year in the pen apiece. Not much of a sample size to go on - I like the idea of adding two more guys who have had more than ONE quality year, giving us twice as many options for stopping runs after Prior peters out with 110 pitches in the 6th, or Rusch struggles in the 6th after he came in to relieve Wood in the 2nd. Okay. You go with your proven vets in the pen at $3.5M each. I'll go with the youngsters and have enough money left over to pay for a $6M player. Or most of Brian Giles for RF. I'm sorry, but Brian Giles alone isn't going to win the Cubs many games...he can hit 2 home runs in the first 6 innings, but when Novoa comes in and blows the lead, those Brian Giles homers means nothing. We have consisently been in the upper echelon of run scoring the last few years, and it doesn't get us anywhere. On the contrary, our bullpen has sucked big time and look where that got us..... We need to protect that dominant pitching staff in the later innings, which is something we have failed to do the last couple years. :-k Cubs Rank in MLB: 2002 2003 2004 2005 Runs Scored 22 20 16 20 Bullpen Runs 25 16 15 19 I'm not sure I can agree with your point... Take a second to examine the overall pitching and offensive stats for the 4 contenders in the AL postseason this year, and you'll obtain a clearer picture of the value of offense/pitching. Blowing over 1/3 of the money we have on one outfielder isn't going to solve the problem. lol - If you look at the stats of the AL playoff teams in other years it tells a different story. So what? Baseball is a simple game. You have to score more than the other team. Scoring runs = 50%, preventing runs = 50%. Preventing runs is split between pitching and defense. Pitching is split between starting (majority) and bullpen (minority). The bullpen is split between 6-7 guys (under Dusty). Spending $3M on a single reliever isn't the answer, either. The $10M on the OF will help a heck of a lot more. LOL

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent. The point is that neither vet has "proven" to be reliably exceptional across their careers. Nor have they proven to be consistently better than what we could expect from Wuertz & Ohman in 2006. Wuertz and Ohman have only had ONE quality year in the pen apiece. Not much of a sample size to go on - I like the idea of adding two more guys who have had more than ONE quality year, giving us twice as many options for stopping runs after Prior peters out with 110 pitches in the 6th, or Rusch struggles in the 6th after he came in to relieve Wood in the 2nd. Okay. You go with your proven vets in the pen at $3.5M each. I'll go with the youngsters and have enough money left over to pay for a $6M player. Or most of Brian Giles for RF. I'm sorry, but Brian Giles alone isn't going to win the Cubs many games...he can hit 2 home runs in the first 6 innings, but when Novoa comes in and blows the lead, those Brian Giles homers means nothing. We have consisently been in the upper echelon of run scoring the last few years, and it doesn't get us anywhere. On the contrary, our bullpen has sucked big time and look where that got us..... We need to protect that dominant pitching staff in the later innings, which is something we have failed to do the last couple years. :-k Cubs Rank in MLB: 2002 2003 2004 2005 Runs Scored 22 20 16 20 Bullpen Runs 25 16 15 19 I'm not sure I can agree with your point... Take a second to examine the overall pitching and offensive stats for the 4 contenders in the AL postseason this year, and you'll obtain a clearer picture of the value of offense/pitching. Blowing over 1/3 of the money we have on one outfielder isn't going to solve the problem.

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent. The point is that neither vet has "proven" to be reliably exceptional across their careers. Nor have they proven to be consistently better than what we could expect from Wuertz & Ohman in 2006. Wuertz and Ohman have only had ONE quality year in the pen apiece. Not much of a sample size to go on - I like the idea of adding two more guys who have had more than ONE quality year, giving us twice as many options for stopping runs after Prior peters out with 110 pitches in the 6th, or Rusch struggles in the 6th after he came in to relieve Wood in the 2nd. Okay. You go with your proven vets in the pen at $3.5M each. I'll go with the youngsters and have enough money left over to pay for a $6M player. Or most of Brian Giles for RF. I'm sorry, but Brian Giles alone isn't going to win the Cubs many games...he can hit 2 home runs in the first 6 innings, but when Novoa comes in and blows the lead, those Brian Giles homers means nothing. We have consisently been in the upper echelon of run scoring the last few years, and it doesn't get us anywhere. On the contrary, our bullpen has sucked big time and look where that got us..... We need to protect that dominant pitching staff in the later innings, which is something we have failed to do the last couple years.

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent. The point is that neither vet has "proven" to be reliably exceptional across their careers. Nor have they proven to be consistently better than what we could expect from Wuertz & Ohman in 2006. Wuertz and Ohman have only had ONE quality year in the pen apiece. Not much of a sample size to go on - I like the idea of adding two more guys who have had more than ONE quality year, giving us twice as many options for stopping runs after Prior peters out with 110 pitches in the 6th, or Rusch struggles in the 6th after he came in to relieve Wood in the 2nd.

12-15 wins? Cmon now. Even if you replace those innings with our worst relievers last year, I doubt you're going to see more than a 5 game difference, if that. umm.....I think latroy was responsible for 5 blown games alone!! Providing Dempster performs as well as he did last year, which is very realistic, I think 12 extra wins is attainable with the upgrades to the bullpen and a full year of Dempster. This theory is ultimately relies on the fact we have at least as much offense as we did last year, though.

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen. Ahh....since we sucked last year we shouldve just taken our chances on more schlubs that weren't proven and never had dominant seasons like Novoa and almost every other guy in our bullpen.....that would get us really far next season. Once again, I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow game after game, and if it takes 7 mil to help that out (especially in regards to the fact we had 30 to spend), that is definitely money well spent.

I don't consider the money we spent on Eyre or will spend on Howry as bad news at all. I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow it. I'd say throwing Howry and Eyre in the mix along with a complete season of Dempster closing will pick us up another 12-15 wins. And I'd rather spend that money on two proven veterans than dump it all and more on Wagner or Ryan. Now, if we pick up a legitimate lead off hitter with some speed, a solid bat for the OF, and a stud pitcher we should be looking really good.

I'd say the odds of Ramirez producing @ the star level would be 1/5 Sanchez, 1/9 With that being said, they could've gone after some more proven minor league talent who had remarkable seasons in '05 - and not just a bunch of hype. For that kinda deal, the fish should've gotten at least one major league caliber starter to help them out. Lowell isnt bad....has proven himself before and has that same potential....and Beckett is just entering his prime. Give him some of Moises' urine, and he would've thrown for 220 innings this year.

In regards to Willis, he was plucked away from the Cubs after barely seeing a tasted of minor action and didnt have stellar #'s. He really came into his own with the fish minor league system, posting SICK #'s for them before being brought up. Anibal appears to have quality stuff - but he falls in that "grey" category of pitchers with alot of potential that have yet to truly shine in the minors, AND has a history of nerve problems in his throwing arm. Either way, I think the fish could've held out for the same quality of prospects AND some major league proven talent. Hell, they probably could've saved some of that Lowell cash too! On the flipside, I can easily see both Sanchez and Ramirez being studs in 5 years as well.....

THAT special? They weren't even good. His numbers were much worse than Cedeno's and they are the same age. I was being polite :) Like I said, what a great deal for Boston - the Marlins got raped on that one, imo.

I definitely don't want Vazquez for that kinda $ - I'd rather have Lowe, Millwood or Burnett.

Great trade for Boston - I wonder if Hendry even through them an offer? You'd think that offer could be beat.... Hanley's #'s weren't THAT special in 05 @ Portland. You'd think they could've gotten more for Beckett and Lowell - and to top it off they through in some cash too!

I don't want Abreu if it costs us 15mil in salary this year + Pie, Williams, etc. That would pretty much empty our pockets and screw us out of nice trading chips at the same time.

Burnett's injury issues scare me as well....especially for that price tag. Lowe would be my preference. Actually, I'd love to see us send Williams or Rusch & prospects to Pitt for Duke. Too bad that day will never come....