illiniguy

That is not a championship team. I don't think the talent is that great, and the depth sucks. Not even close to a team like UNC who won last year. But I don't think any team this year has the talent that UNC had last year. UConn may get there once they get players back. This year may be as wide open a year when it comes to teams that could win it all because of no dominant teams. Uconn, Texas, and Villanova are the best three teams. Uconn will get a lot better once they add Williams. If IU had a really good guard to go with Marco and DJ they would be the best team in the country.

Better, but significantly better? I'm not so sure. Who's going to play third? Or first? Bill Mueller? Drew and Bradley (who probably won't even be a Dodger come opening day) are perennial DL candidates who are coming of injuries. Izturis (who helped carry the Dodgers early last year with his improbable start) is not going to be ready till midseason after major surgery. Gagne is going to be coming odd major surgery, as is Jayson Werth. You have no idea what you will get out of Jose Cruz Jr. Kent and Bradley hate each other. They don't even have a manager yet. They have a mixture of the young and inconsistent in the rotation. Weaver and possibly Lowe are going to be gone. They gave a foolish contract to Drew, to Lowe, and now a very foolish contract to Furcal. Now they're out of money. As for the Cubs, Wood is going to be a issue, but I don't feel Prior will miss any real time next year. Z is Z. Maddux is Maddux. We have Silver sluggers at first base and catcher, and a potential one in Ramirez at third whose offseason training is going to be monitored closely this year to help prevent leg troubles. We have gone from a terrible bullpen to a good one. Most importantly we have a ton of money to spend and a ton of prospects to trade to fill our holes. L.A. has the prospects, but not the money. I just feel the Cubs are in a better place than the Dodgers. I agree with many of your points however I was just reacting to your post "L.A. isn't winning anything anytime real soon." compared to the Cubs. I just don't see a huge gap between the 2 teams. But I agree the Cubs have a better upside than L.A. You know we have had a real rough off season and we all pretty much know that we need to lower expectations again. Don't you think this compounded with the last two world champions ending streaks is enough to get to us without a Cardinals fan playing devils advocate all the time on a Cubs board? We get it our prospects for the playoffs once again don't look good.

what a joke of a response. the fact remains that he has dropped significantly on everyone's lists and has a LOOOONG way to go. in short, carlwell is a project. what are you talking about? i repeat, he played on the best illini team in history as a freshman. i can see the conversation now: lou: "sorry nick, i know you're averaging 20 points and are the heart of this team, but we're going to sit you so that marcus won't be a flop in the eyes of illiniguy". nick: "okay coach, anything for illiniguy's perception of marcus. i understand that his criteria for being a flop precludes you from starting me." this is one of the most ridiculous phrases that i've ever seen on this board. the illini lost the game because nobody blocked out sean higgins, period. whatever, he gave his time to the illini, he got out at the beginning of the sanctions. i can't fault him. maybe if he had gone to syracuse he could have sat behind derrick coleman while the flyin' illini came back to beat them in the regional final, i really don't care. he had a great sophomore season and he rode that to a lot of money. are you kidding me? HRF couldn't spell cat either, half the kids who you think of as illinois heroes were boxes of rocks, that doesn't separate them from marcus at all. luther head choked his girlfriend because she wouldn't watch roots with him, yet i think of his him as possibly a top 3 all-time player in illinois history. we won't even mention the incident with the open dorm room. heh, "master of everything illinois"? no, i just know more than you, which isn't hard. On whose list has Carlwell fallen exactly? He ranks around where the great Jon Scheyer is on rivals.com???? I don't think he has gone anywhere on anyone's "list" not that lists matter much EDIT: Carlwell is actually significantly higher than Scheyer on rivals.com rankings ah but Scheyer chose Duke so he has to be better. In all seriousness Scheyer is a lot further along at this point in time the Brian is, but I am confident in Bruce's player development skills. As for the poster talking about Xavier, yeah it was too close but I think that is a tournament team they played. Matta recruited some good players who could all shoot and defend.

cough Purdue cough

Carlwell actually jumped in the scouts rankings all the way up to the top 40. He has only been playing basketball for about two years. His older brother plays at Illinois State, he is huge the type of size guy we haven't had since Marcus Griffin and he could grow to be bigger. I will go ahead and say that if he is good enough for Bruce to want then he is good enough for me. People rail on Illinois kids for wanting to leave all the time and go elsewhere and yet here is a kid who wants to stay and Illinois fans just rip him apart, and no I don;t mean just you. Fact is he is a top 50 player in most rankings and wants to play for Illinois that is good enough for me. The fact remains you just keep talking about how bad Weber's recruits have been and then I will tell you to wait until they lose a game in their careers before you rip em apart. After all this is the first year any of them have really played any minutes. I also think we should consider that Weber had to convince three very talented freshman to stay and not follow Bill Self out of town. Can you imagine if Deron, Dee, and James would have left?

i can't freaking believe it. i retract all of my previous statements. weber needs to sell rose the way self sold collins--think about the backcourt you could play in, pooh. it could blow dee-deron out of the water. yep looks like weber can recruit. :roll: Still gonna be a mid major though. If we can add Rose and Mbwakbe too this class to go with who we already have in the fold I think we will be a better aoll around team than we were last year. Sulley just remember that BAM is 80 and 8 or something in his two plus years here, I think we would have to all agree that is beyond most of ourwildest expectations. don't roll your eyes at me, i'm well aware of weber's successes. (sorry rocket) i've forgotten more about illini basketball than most know. i didn't just spend some time at the IB, glean some rumors and names, and call myself a fan. and you never answered my last post to you for some reason. it's not beyond my wildest expectations because his team had it's shelves stocked by bill, who can recruit a little bit. i'm pleased with weber's recruiting of gordon but he's got a ways to go. If he gets rose then he gets my respect as a recruiter. Ok there Sulley I am sure you are the most infinite knowledge of Illinois hoops there is, but if you are so in love with Bill Self and his recruiting don't be afraid to folow his new team. Bruce Weber has done a fine job. From everything I have seen of Brian Carlwell he seems to be a heck of a get. We beat Tom Izzo for him he seems to know his talent. But, he you have seen him and don't think much of him. Sorry I am gonna side with Weber and Izzo. Too me Marcus Liberty was a flop, when you get a number 1 player in America, especially in that time period, you expect him to be a two or three year starter. Also if I am not mistaken he also was a prop 48 kid that had to sit out a year. If he can play that first year then be a sophomore with game experience coming into 88-89 it might have made the difference in beating Michigan for the third time. I also am sour on him because about three years ago he had an interview where he said that if he would have went to a pregram like Syracuse he would have been a much better pro. GMAFB, Marcus if you could have spelled cat and been able to play right away at Illinois and actually stayed long enough to be the man in college I would think you could make that argument. But, now that we are allowing Marcus to run his fantasy camp at Illinois he is back in the fold. Sorry if I stepped on your toes oh master of everything Illinois.

i can't freaking believe it. i retract all of my previous statements. weber needs to sell rose the way self sold collins--think about the backcourt you could play in, pooh. it could blow dee-deron out of the water. yep looks like weber can recruit. :roll: Still gonna be a mid major though. If we can add Rose and Mbwakbe too this class to go with who we already have in the fold I think we will be a better aoll around team than we were last year. Sulley just remember that BAM is 80 and 8 or something in his two plus years here, I think we would have to all agree that is beyond most of ourwildest expectations.

wow that is straight filling it up. too bad dickie v hasn't even noticed anyone besides Duke all year and will probably talk about what a great shooter reddick is when the two teams meet. Go big ten.

um how about frank williams and brian cook not getting any better their entire careers under Billy boy and both flopping in the nba? they were both burger boys who bill really didn't help develop much at all. As for Bucknell Bill at least have the decency to let the players know that you were leaving to their faces like Roy did. Also try not to give anymore I am in this for the long haul speeches weeks before you leave us at the first sign of an upgrade. i hope that wright and collins do well because they are illinois kids, however i hope self gets fired and someone else comes in and finishes the job. here here. Snood, the reason were bitter is because the guy flat out left us right when the Kansas job opened. Like illiniguy said, he didn't tell any of the players he was leaving until he basically left. Screw him. I have nothing really against the program of Kansas except the coach of it. Yeah I can agree with this sentiment. I really thought you guys were fun to watch under Roy. you pushed the ball and didn't settle for a grind it down game. I mean sure I thought Roy was a tool at times, like the monkey thing off his back and all the dagums, but I was never anti-kansas and still am not. the minute Self is done there I will be fine with them again.

Well I would say look at Frank williams winning mr basketabll over bobby simmons, quentin richardson, and corey magettee. look at frank wining big ten player of the year. look at frank playing his second year under bill self and regressing in every major area. Partially it was his fault, but bill is his coach not his buddy. bill should have sat his butt and showed him who was in charge. I do think he is starting to do that though with how he handled the giddens situation. Cook to me had all this great talent could shoot the ball at his height with a great touch he had 4 years to develop a post game to become a very good nba player. four years under bill and we are still waiting. I know this can;t be all attributed to bill, but i think many of us saw the huge strides all three of our guards made while playing under weber and go to the conclusion it was his coaching that developed them. right or wrong it is how I feel. anyways it is a moot point. we are more angry because we felt with bill we were on the verge of being something really special because the man can sell ice to eskimos and prety much beat anyone not named K for a recruit head up. Well that and the slimy way he left. the whole situation was crap and it left us out in the air as espn and every other major network is pushing ku so hard he would have looked like a loser had he left. yet they did no such thing for our program after Bill left. now i think we have the better game coach by far, but we might step back a bit because of the difference in talent. I only hope bruce can gain in the recruiting field. They really need to pair him with a Jimmy Collins.

um how about frank williams and brian cook not getting any better their entire careers under Billy boy and both flopping in the nba? they were both burger boys who bill really didn't help develop much at all. As for Bucknell Bill at least have the decency to let the players know that you were leaving to their faces like Roy did. Also try not to give anymore I am in this for the long haul speeches weeks before you leave us at the first sign of an upgrade. i hope that wright and collins do well because they are illinois kids, however i hope self gets fired and someone else comes in and finishes the job.

No I wish we would have gotten Collins he is good I just don't guys improved as much under self as they did under weber.

that's fantastic logic, don't go after the best players because they're bound to be busts, and the lesser knowns will always turn out to be great. deron williams was a top 50 guy, not a mid major talent, and luther was one of the best athletes of that class--and the first public league player we'd landed in a while. he had a very high-profile high school all-star game in which he threw the ball between his legs, off the backboard and dunked it--he was known, and he was a very good recruit. i must remind you that illinois will, barring a star juco-transfer that i have yet to hear about, have chester frazier starting at point guard next season, and chester will show you just how very very badly we messed up when we lost collins, i can assure you of that. marcus liberty did not "flop" in college, he left a year too soon, but he was definitely not a "flop", nor was shaquille a nobody. that's great. i wouldn't. i'm not looking to win "a couple of games" in the tourney. not even self could mess that team up. chalmers, collins, wright, and rush by themselves could win a title. i prefered the MSU-Kentucky game from the last tourney. ok maybe you didnt realize that Head was so highly thought of he had to convince two head coaches at illinois to gamble on him. Kruger didn't like him a lot and Self almost pulled his scholly. Deron Williams fell to us because everyone else had a guy who they thought were better. Collins is great you say, yet I question have you ever with your own eyes seen him play a game yet? If you have and you are impressed I would then question you why can't he pull a Scheyer and lead his team down state? I think Collins will be a heck of a player who will be a great college guard, but since he is going to Self I wonder how much better he will get as he doesn;t have a great record of player development. I think Chester Frazier is a good point guard already. When he is in the games the team runs a much better O than when Dee is manning the point guard spot. I also know that UCONN begged Chester not to sign with us because they were interested and got in on the game very late. But, hey that Calhoun doesn't know talent. The fact of the matter is that so far both Frazier and Jamar Smith, another non top 150 guy, both have contributed to a top 20 team as freshmen. As for your Weber will make us a mid major with his recruits. I have to ask how many times did we go to the elite eight with Self and Kruger or Henson for that matter? All of them were great recruiters. Yet none of them got as far as Weber has in the program. None of them even did a good enough job to beat a higher seeded opponent in the tournament. Brian Carlwell in next years calss is a top 40 player at center. Illinois hasn't had a dominant center since Red Kerr. RIchard Semrau was also a top 40 talent until he quit playing AAU to work on his game within the context of being a team player. Oh man I hate to hear that why get a guy who will iunderstand and accept his role. As for Marcus Liberty. The guy was the number one player in his class and he had one year as a starter. That is laughable. You are right the shaq thing was kind of a bad example in a way. I was just trying to point out a lot of these guru's don't know as much as people think.

well common sense would dictate that yes he has to be released. however, I will not hold my breath.

Ager's 3 to send it to OT was close to a shot, but his team didn't win it and the game went on for 15 more minutes after it. I read something in the paper today that said that it's already being considered one of the best regular season games ever. High praise. it was just unreal for two teams to be firing like that it the same time this early in the season. the post that made fun of msu for always losing in the preconference is a moran also, they are always battle tested in the tournament, thus they are always a tough out as a result.

nice logic applied here. wow, or maybe a junior in high school wants to take all of his visits before he makes the biggest choice of his life. we didn't get a lot of guys in the past that were must gets to lock down the area and had to settle. lets see we could have gotten the great pierre pierce and or sean dockery. instead we had to settle for two unknown mid major players like deron williams and luther head. strangely if you want to watch the two mid major guys you have to pay a lot of money at an nba event. But, hey those numbers next to a guys name mean everything. thats why Marcus Liberty turned into the second coming and Shaquille O'Neal flopped. secondly, I would take the kind of success that Bruce Weber had at SIU here at illinois. They were in the tourny every year and usualyy won a couple of games in it. the guys record is like 100 and 9 in two years, lets get rid of him and see if Bill Self will come back when KU dumps him for taking all top 5 players who all play 2 positions and go below .500. Oh yeah and if that MSU Gonzaga game was in the tourny it would have been labeled as better than the Duke Kentucky game, although it lacked the signature shot.

They are going to destroy you. Killingsworth won;t get a shot off on Williams. God I hope I am wrong though.

Jamar Smith is RAW! that is all.

ah yes and if the cubs had that same rotation carp and burnetts arms would fall off and reyes would flop.

He's going to be suspended for the first semester. It's pretty disappointing. We've got to tighten the ship, IMO. Too much has happened in the last 4 years, with some of it happening under Roy, some under Self. As for it being the same thing that happened to UI, I don't know if that's true. We only know the bare details of both situations. But I don't think this is the last we'll hear of it. According to a poster on phog.net, the ruling we just saw was solely regarding DJs eligibility. That's entirely separate from the infractions committee. I didn't realize that was only the players ruling. I just think there is too much crap going on at all schools right now yet nothing really happens. Either tighten the rules and enforce what needs to be enforced, or just get the farce over with and pay the players. Congress has to keep poking its issues in on sports and ignore the good of the country they should go here next imo.

snood, whats going on with darnell jackson? How are you guys not going to get punished for the same thing that happened to the Illinois football team when a booster who previously new the player gave him gifts? The NCAA is so corrupt it is ridiculous.

Why don't you see a trade with Cincy? They need cheap, good pitching. We have cheap, good pitching. We can give them quality or quantity. Because Cincy is too stupid to realize that we match up pretty well as trading partners. That's why... Do they? I don't think the Cubs have a A level pitching prospects required to get Dunn. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Cubs have a lot of B and C guys. You are wrong, his name is Mark Pawelek, he is an A level prospect. Unless of course you consider filthy young lefties a c level prospect. Too bad he can't be moved until june, well actually I am glad he can't.

Yes and we lost 5 of our top 7 so I guess it evens out. I think that Roy will have them pumped up and decent for one year until they reload in a big way.

well what about Kansas who doesn't play a road game. Well I guess they are in the maui invitational, but come on Billf try to get the freshman ready for roadtrips into OU and OSU. Self Doesn't make the schedule, the AD does. Regardless of where our games are played, we have a pretty tough schedule. In Maui, we'll play #9 Arizona, then #2 UCONN or Arkansas (probably Arkansas). Our noncon also includes St. Joe's in NY, Cal in KC, and #25 Nevada and #10 Kentucky in Lawrence. Keep in mind, our the avg. age of our players is about 12. Anyway, I wouldn't expect to see KU take too many non-con road trips in the near future, unless it's against a premier team. Our AD is really money focused, and there's too much money to be lost playing mediocre teams on the road. Kind of lame, but I guess that's the way things are now. your young guys, rush in particular looked pretty damn good against Fort Hayes. He gets whatever shot he wants which is an NBA player already.

well what about Kansas who doesn't play a road game. Well I guess they are in the maui invitational, but come on Billf try to get the freshman ready for roadtrips into OU and OSU.