NewUserName

I couldnt agree more with you MG. It is an approach that the Cubs have never come anywhere near doing in my lifetime. I know alot of people on here will say that the Cubs have given young players chances. To them I ask name two position player the Cubs have given a full time starting job for at least a year since 89. I can only think of one(Patterson) Looking at every team with a winning record this season, I could name at least 3 from every organization. Like I said I would much rather take a "risk" on Murton or Cedeno than bring in any for sure guy who is short of a future HoFer still in his late 20s. gooney, Why doesnt Murton have a chance to be as good as Giles? I also wasnt saying not to get Giles to give Murton a chance. I just think that Giles is going to get a 3 to 4 year deal that will be an albatross around somebodys neck in a couple of years. (see Thome) I would be more concerned about us not being able to resign some of our own players that we have now or be able to get younger more valuable free agents down the line. Also since only one team in baseball history has ever gone from being under 500 then signed a bunch of free agents and won the WS, we are probably at least 2 yrs away from contending. So why not save our money this off season when there isnt very many good free agents, Play as much youth as possible next, Then attack the market and fill in some holes after next off season. Then I am guessing we will be able to acguire a younger just as valuable player as Giles for about the same money

Giles is going to get way too many years and way too much money for a 35 year old free agent. If Murton is a "risk" I would take the risk over just about any sure thing that the Cubs could resonably attain this off-season for lf. Personnally I think that Murton is Brian Giles in 2 years if given the shot.

If Murton does hit 280 in a mostly full-time role with the same kind of plate discipline and 15 HRS that would be a pretty good 1st full season in the bigs. I do think he will be a 300 hitter with a little power in the future though. The one thing I definantly know is he has EARNED the chance to start next season as our starting lf and Hendry should key on acquiring a RF. If than he isnt working out and we are in contention than add someone at the trading deadline.

I dont want to defend Dusty too much but before the game on Thurs or Fri, Brenly asked what were the positives of the season besides Lee and Aram. The very first thing that Dusty said was the play of Cedeno, Murton, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa. Not making it up. He said a couple of other things and than brought up Neifi.

I still think the money the Cubs may spend on Frucal may not be wise. I think Cedeno could give us most of what Frucal would give us and probably be as good in a couple of years at alot less money. Also though I wouldnt be against bringing back Nomar, its alot easier to say change a position than to do it. I know he has handled 3rd better than expected. Its just alot bigger difference between ss and 3rd than ss and LF. I also dont understand why everyone wants Murton to this that and the other thing. A guy who could hit 15 hrs 35 doubles and have a OBP in the upper 300s would be a great LF. I am not sure he will do this but he has surly earned the opportunity to find out. My bet is he will be this good in a couple of years if given the opportunity.

ok. The fact if bunting was the right or wrong thing to do wasnt really the point. Dusty believed it was the right thing to do. He didnt do it because he didnt think the player could execute. So he went with what he thought was wrong because a player couldnt execute a fundamental play. This is the bad management approach that I was talking about. He didnt have a player prepared to do what he wanted him to do. He left the player in the game and switched his plan. Than after the game used the players inability to make a play as an excuse for not doing what he thought was right. This seems to be the problem with alot of these fundamental things. In the problem with the signs he seems to be taking about the same approach. His excuss seems to be the modern player not being good fundamental players. I just believe that they are not good fundamental players is because Dusty doesnt prepare them to be and then hold them accountable for not doing it.

The Yankees, REd sox and the Angels all had a decent core of homegrown talent to start with. Also we will never be able to outspend the red sox or the yankees so we would be working from behind to begin with. I am not saying never get a free agent, I am just saying figure out what you have first. An example may be SS. Frucal is about to be paid alot of money this year. Probably more than he is worth. If Cedeno can give us good defence(which looks like a given) and any resemblence of offense(this is probably the major question but he looks good) Why not play him and save money for places that will be a weakness. I would suggest a corner outfielder but wouldnt pay a 35 year old Giles alot of money. If you could somehow get him for 2 years fine but that probably will not happen. So why not let Murton, Cedeno, Pie, Rich Hill and Fontenot have a chance. Probably not do that well this next year but probably better by the end of the season. See where you stand then and fill in the holes. If they try to fill in the holes this off-season they will probably still not be a series contender and may be throwing the money in the wrong direction. Also signing Frucal, Giles, Burnett or bringing in Zito may hamper our ability to resign Lee, Prior and Zambrano.

The situations I was referring to happened last year. I may be wrong about it being ARam both times it may have been Moises one of the times. Though I dont remember all of the ifs and whats. The point I was trying to make was that Dusty acknowledge in his PC that bunting would have been the best play he just didnt have faith in his player to do it. Dusty just accepted the fact that he had players who couldnt do a fundamental play and instead of making sure the player was prepared or putting someone in who could he called for a play that he thought was wrong. Yes this is bad managing. I didnt mean it as a personnal attack on ARam. In the Cardinal game earlier this year you would have to figure out if you had a better chance of scoring from 2nd with Burnitz, Aram and Barrett or scoring from 3rd with Barrett and Perez. At first glance this does seem obvious. Looking at the numbers, BA with runners in scoring position Burnitz 255 ARAM 327 Barrett 296 Perez 285. Still obvious. However Burnitz has grounded into 11 DPs and ARAM 15 while Barrett has grounded into only 7. Starting to see some reasoning. If you also factor in that a run can be scored from 3rd on a fly ball, pass ball, wild pitch, balk, some ground balls, walk, hbp and other assortment of things. I would say the chances were about the same either way. The only reason it was only a 28% chance of scoring that inning was because Barrett KOd. I also believe that Dusty didnt even consider that ARAM was going to be walked.

I tell you what I agree that both the Reds and Devil Rays are poorly run. I will not concede that the Cubs havent been poorly run. Probably not any better than either the Reds or the D rays. The point still remains that both of those teams are poised to be better than the Cubs in the next couple of years. The reasons are basically that they USE their minor league systems. The Cubs still have given only 1 rookie position player regular full season playing time since 89. This from a team that has had 1 of the highest rated farm systems in baseball the last 6 years. This is not what well run organizations do. Build within and fill gaps from other sources. The Cubs have for my entire lifetime been trying to build from other sources. This is what poorly run teams do.

I read this earlier and have come back to it after some serious thought. 1. Does this just seem bizarre? 2. Exactly what did Cedeno do wrong? 3. Did someone throw Spier under the bus? 4. Why did Hairston even deny knowing that he missed a sign? 5. At least Spiers was taking some responsibility. It seems that noone else is 6. This is a little off topic but bare with me. In todays society it seems ok for jr high and high school kids to not have manners, dress inappropriatly, disrespect adults, use having a bad teacher as an excuss for getting bad grades, argue with refs and I am sure that you can add alot of your own. My children have been raised to more of a throw back style. They dress modestly, call adults mr and mrs, have no excuss for poor grades, follow the golden rule. They arent perfect by any stretch of the imagination but they do pretty good. I also think that these traits will help them succeed latter in life just as much as doing well in school or sports. One of the things I hear alot from other parents is how we do it in modern times. Its simple,it is the rules of the house they live in. How does this pretain to the Cubs. I will use an example from last year that really bothered me and showed me that Dusty wasnt running the ship as he should. Twice Aram came up with runners on 1 and 2 and noone out late in tied games. It was clearly a bunting situation. Neither time did he bunt. Both times the Cubs didnt score in the inning. Dusty said that he didnt have Aram bunt because he hadnt done it in a long time. I agree that he shouldnt have him do it in a key spot in a game if he wasnt prepared. My question though was why wasnt he prepared? Also if he couldnt do it why wasnt someone put in who could? The answer to both questions seems to be that you do not want to rub the modern star athlete the wrong way by either having him practice bunting or taking him out in a key situation. How this relates to the present situation is Are they taking extra sign reading practice? Since Hairston has done this several times is he being benched and TOLD WHY? The answer to almost all fundemental question is they need to be practiced everyday. If they are practiced everyday they will seem important to the manager. If they seem important to the manager it will be important to the players. If you work on something for 20 straight days it will become a routine. 7. Basically if a team is consistently bad at fundementals it is the managers fault. Also any true leader will take responsibility for problems not blame others.

why dont we try developing our own players instead of speculating on others. Jason Bay is another player the Cubs probably would have thrown on the scrap heap because he wasnt very good when he first came up as a rookie.

I also believe that this has the potential to be a disastorous off-season. Before they spend to much of the 50 million you also need to consider that Prior, Z and Lee are in need of new contracts the next couple of years. So before they go all out and get the 3 best players available they should realize that 2 of them are in their 30s and will probably start having declining value over the next few years. Also only one team in baseball history has gone from under 500 to winning the WS the next year by bringing in a bunch of free agents. I would suggest that youth is used. Do not give Dusty veteren options on the bench. See which of their young players is worth keeping and then try to upgrade through free agency after next season. I believe this way has a chance to have alot better long term success than going overboard this off-season

Funny how the first place team has a rookie batting Cleanup.

Hawkins, Nomar, Burnitz, Remlinger, Hollandsworth, Rusch. Maybe not as bad as Milton but what do the Cubs have to show for this 30 million in payroll. Also again neither one of those guys is discussing reupping one the worst managers in baseball.

Again though do the Cubs have better people running there team than the Reds and the Devil Rays. What is to keep these two teams from succeeding in the next couple of years. Probably the same as the Cubs, bad management. Neither one of these two teams is considering reupping there managers who havent gotten the job done. If everything remains the same for the Cubs(Dusty managing, Hendry bringing in veterens so Dusty will not play youth) The Reds and The Devil Rays will be better than us in the next couple of years. What is really frustrating is this is probably the 1st since Dallas Green that the Cubs have a functuaning minor league system and with Dusty at the helm of the major league team it is just going to be ruined.

Go Indians!!!!!

The Reds are only a couple of games behind us and have kicked our cans all year. I think it is very realistic to expect them to be better than the Cubs next year if they are willing to trade a outfielder for a front line starter. They also have a couple of players who probably will be even better in the next couple of years. The Devil Rays have one of the best records in baseball in the 2nd half and are defiantly a team on the rise. Also what about the Cubs makes you think they are better run than the Reds or the devil Rays. It might come as a shock to you but if you would go to other teams sites the Cubs are held up as a team that is mismanaged and inept. Since they have gone about 100 years without a World Championship it is hard to argue against it.

who is better is moot Burnett is going to make way more than he is worth

Instead of trading for Zito why dont the Cubs read moneyball and use it as an example of running the organization. Oh I know the Cubs success rate is so much better than the A's it just wouldnt make sense. Not only the A's but some other teams that have built within That are better than the Cubs or at least as good with a better upside; Twins, Tigers, Rangers, Devil Rays, Brewers, Reds, Astros, Blue Jays, Reds, Braves. I say forget Frucal and go even cheaper. Its not like the way we doing things now is very successful

Neely i dont want to give Hendry a complete pass, But Hendry did intend on Dempster being the closer from the beginning, he intended on Dubois being the starting LF(Yes Dubois wasnt great, but he does have the 2nd highest ops among our outfielders this season, Murton is highest) no one thought Patterson would be this bad, and though it isnt surprising it was kind of bad luck that Ramirez, Wood, Prior, Walker and Garciaparra would miss significant time with injuries. Also it is now established in every circle of baseball that Dusty cannot handle his pitching staffs. I am not saying that the Cubs had a chance to be a WS contender with the team that Hendry put together but I do believe that Dusty probably cost us 10 games easy by his bad managing. Lastly I have been posting this everywhere the last couple of weeks so I will post it here also. Basically the Cubs WILL NEVER have sustained sucess without building a Major League team based on their own minor league system. In my opinion this should start today. There is absolutely no reason to be playing anybody over Murton and Cedeno. Also only Z, Prior and Williams should be getting starts over Rich Hill. If you think the Cubs are going to Add Frucal, Giles and Burnett and contend for the WS next year, Good luck it has only happened once in baseball history(97 Marlins) and they were not able to sustain the success. So since the best way to build a team is through your minor league system and Dusty has PROVEN he cannot play young players Dusty will have to leave for us to be able to grow as an orginization

The problem might also be that if a rookie is brought up by the Cubs and he doesnt flash instant rookie of the year stuff he is pretty much put on the scrap heap in about 3 weeks. The most critical part of a players development is his first year of major league baseball. It is great if he is on a winning team and can bat low in the lineup and be surrounded by veteren players to pick him up when needed. This rarely ever could be mistaken as the Cubs. Cub rookies get brought up and are either sat or have unrealistic expectations put on them. I have come up with some all-star caliber players who the Cubs probably would have thrown on the scrap heap because they were not very good rookies who are now very valuable players. Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Morgan Ensberg, Craig Biggio, Brady Clark, Brian Giles, Marcus Giles, Miguel Cabrera, JIm Thome, Richie Sexton, Omar Visquel, Paul Konerko, Tori Hunter, Carlos Delgado, Jeff Kent, Tejada, Beltran, Sheffield, Chipper, Bernie Williams, Jason Varitek, Johny Damon, Trot Nixon, Edgar Renteria, Jorge Posada, Carl Crawford. I am sure some are not the best examples and I probably have missed someother good examples. The point being is that MOST of the time rookies are not that good. If you let them play though they do get better and develop. Since the Cubs are easily the worst team in baseball at playing young position players( this isnt just Dusty it has been going on for years) and probably have close to the worst record in baseball over the last 20 years. You would think that someone would wisen up in this organization. Of course the fans keep coming out to support the Jeromy Burnitzes and the Neifi Perezes of the World. The thing that the Cubs seem most scared to do is just go ahead and go with youth. Yes it might not go well for a couple of years but as opposed to bringing in veterens who are getting paid high end for declining value and struggling to stay around 500. Then once every 6 years or so we hit the jackpot and make it to the playoffs but are completely outmatched by teams that have been built through their own minor league system.

I have a somewhat useful Question, What is the Cubs record when Murton starts?

Neifi is basically Alex Gonzalez. Little range, decent glove, low OBP, streaky hitting. Completely missused by Dusty. I cant think of anything more important to the future of the Cubs than to get guys like Neifi off the roster. Its not a bash on him it is a bash on Dusty. It is very critical to the future of the Cubs for Cedeno to be given every opportunity to play NOW. Before we make a major investment on a player like frucal it would be very prudent for us to see if Cedeno could be the answer at a fraction of the cost. If past history is any help it is easy to see Neifi getting the bulk of the PT the rest of the season though.

Paul O'Neill might have bitched and moaned but the Yankees havent won a WS without him.

Art Howe great with young players, understands obp, doesnt overuse pitchers. He is almost the anti Dusty