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I do agree that this team is bad. Probably not as bad as they were in May but not nearly as good as they were in April. Sadly I think they will be better for the rest of the season for a variety of reasons. This is not saying that they will make a run at the Wild Card(except in their own diluted minds). After Lee comes back and Prior starts pitching at an average level, they will be better. However still not good. What really scares me is some improvement will be justification for a Dusty extention, which will be followed by a 120,000 fan 3 game weekend series

I hate to change the tone of the thread so I will start with WE LOSE My real question is why is Murton being singled out? I do agree he hasnt been good lately and really not good at all against RHers. However for as bad as the Cub offense has been this year I do believe this the first official benching(or somewhat benching). I know Dusty is bad, but think about this. Our first benching of any sort has happened in mid June and it is with a guy who is still a better hitter than 4 or 5 other guys in the order. On top of that he is a young player we may be building on and we are most definetly out of the race. Just another example of how STUPID our manager is. Absolutely no accountability for guys like Pierre to stink up the joint and still not only start ever frickin game but bat at the top of the order. For people who defend Dusty please come up with something on this

Why do I see some sort of quote like this coming "Its hard to compete with all the injuries we have had, what team could possibly compete with Wood, Prior, Lee and Rusch out, thats 3/5ths of the rotation!!"

Remember the year the Cardinals got Scott Rolen. If I remember right they were basically out of contention. I think it would be pretty shrewd of the Cubs to trade for a Carl Crawford this season with a eye on him for the next couple of years. He is still only 25 putting up good #s and we probably could spare some young arms. To bad we already wasted a couple of good young arms on Pierrre

I agree that the Cubs do not have any leadership to point a finger at the top and that is a lot of the problem. Another thing that the Cubs have done for years is kid themselves into thinking they are contenders and put faith into really bad options because they have more experience. I dont like Dusty but this way of thinking has been around here for long before Dusty got here. I am pretty sure in 2002 They had a choice to start a 2-7 Jason Bere with a ERA in the 6s or a 1-8 Juan Cruz with a ERA in the mid 3s. Somehow they came to the conclusion that Bere gave them a better chance to win now!!! The stupidest thing was they werent even contending, they just thought they were. Cruz was never they same and well we know what kind of career Bere has had here. They have been making these decisions for years. In a year like 2003 I could understand it a little because they were actually contending. That is why they really need to just understand that they are out of it and start accessing who they have to build around. I am pretty sure that it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that Rusch, Perez, Mabry, Nevin, Maddux, Womack, Blanco and Pierre are not going to be around when this team is contending again. I really think it is time to clean ALL of these guys out and see what we can get for them(I know it probably wont be much) and start letting guys like Guzman, Hill, Wuertz, Theriot, Restovich and maybe even Pie start taking their lumps and learn how to play at the Major League level when the season is already lost. Lets see if these guys are worth keeping or we need to look to other players to fill their roles. At least then we could get something accomplished this season. My guess is you will see most of those "Proven Veterens" playing for the Cubs in Sept though. While the youngsters waste time on the bech watching losers lose.

Blanco has just past Pierre in RBIs.

Didnt Babe Ruth get ejected after walking the first guy in a game and than his relief pitcher got the next 27 guys out?

What do you think the record is more most KOs in a relief outing?

I listen to the games a lot. Ron has been very accurate about the Cubs on a lot of issues. He constantly is complaining about lack of patience at the plate. He also has said several of these things "Murton started slumping when he stopped looking at pitches" "I know Pierre will hit but until then he really needs to be out of the lead-off spot" "I would rather the other team was getting hits than all the walks we are giving up" I know he isnt perfect but he isnt dumb either. On a side note about Ronnie, my brother lives in the San Fran area and he said a local radio station about 7 years ago started the Ron Santo call of the day. I guess its a major hit and pretty funny. Personnally I like to listen to Pat and Ron. They may not intentionally be as entertaining as they are but it is pretty entertaining.

I know he is hard to watch but for those who think Neifi is fast, I dont think you are watching closely. I am guessing he wouldnt beat Murton in a race. Hes not slow but certainly not in the same speed category as bynum, Pierre and the real underrated burner Cedeno.

Dont you think that Dusty was sitting there thinking that when Lee and Pagan come back the 2 players that would make the most sense to get rid of would be Perez and Bynum. Since he likes those guys he is creating an atmoshere to have Murton sent down and Walker traded instead. I have a feeling Murton is about to be added to players that Dusty has sat on the bench for stupid reasons while his boys get PT for even stupider reasons.

Did Perez bat RH last night? I didnt notice. I am guessing not. What really blew my mind was not only did Perez start and bat 2nd, Dusty thought so little of him he pinch hit for him in a key spot later in the game. Is his defense that superior at 2nd!!! I cannot believe how stupid all this logic seems. Just for my understanding what were Perez's career #s against Oswalt before last night. Just for comparision what were Walkers and Womacks, If someone has those #s, I dont want anyone to go thru the trouble of looking them up for me if not.

I am guessing Murton and Walker will be sitting tomorrow

Maybe he is saving Walker to ph for Pierre

For some reason when Ortiz was dfa'd I am guessing Hendry wasnt thinking "Well if they can do it for 22 mill we could do it for 5." I am guessing it was more like "HHMMM, we could get him for close to the league minimum and Dusty has had some success with him"

If you are going to Pinch Hit Womack in a key spot why didnt he just start? Surely Neifi isnt that much better defensively at 2nd. I wonder if Dusty even considers how stupid he looks doing these things?

I am not questioning this kids motives or anything, but isnt it obvious that he is going to play one sport against the other. (I dont blame him I would too) This is a game for the Yankees and Red Sox to play. Cubs would be better off staying out. By the way I thought College players could have off-season jobs, just not during the season there sport is in? I am pretty sure that I know of some Uof I athletes that have had jobs locally around Chambana.

The 84 Cubs were still my greatest memory. I was about 20 and long suffered already. To answer an earlier question I think Catfish Hunter was the first 1 million a year player.

I always find it interesting what Cub fans expect out of rookies. (I know Murton is not a rookie but close) If they are not winning the rookie of the year they feel like they will never be any good. I know that the Cub management for years has also had this approach so it must be a learned behavior. For fun I would recomend looking at the first yr #s of these players. I am just pulling them from my head so some may be better than others ARam, Ryne Sandberg, Morgan Ensberg, Scott Rolen, IRod, Eric Chavez, Miguel Tejada, Vlad Guerrero, Jim Thome, Brian Giles, Manny Ramirez, Derek Lee, Craig Biggio, Chad Tracy, jim Edmonds, AJones, CJones, Carlos Delgado, Torri Hunter. I just threw a few out there, I am sure if I actually looked it up I could come up with more. I would predict that if Murton is given a full year at the job his first 600 abs #s would be similar to these players. I am not saying that Murton will be as good as these players, I am just saying dont let what he is doing now be your opinion on what kind of career he may have. My biggest concern with him has been gap power not HR power. I think he only has 7 doubles and didnt show a big sign in the minors or last year to have a lot of double power. Still think he should be batting 2nd though. Aslo since the team is clearly not going to contend should be playing as much as possible.

I thought Sampson lost all his strength after he got his hair cut? Was his hair at least to his shoulders?

I have posted this before but I will mention it again. If they really want to clean up the game the solution is forfeiting teams wins if they are found to be using a player that is on a banned substance. So far all of the punishments have been to the players and their checks. It isnt that big of a gamble for a team like the Giants to use a player like Barry Bonds. If he gets caught he is on suspension. So the Giants suffer after he is put on suspension. However they reap the rewards of him as a player if he isnt caught or before he is caught in performance and ATTENDENCE. Yes they would take an attendence hit after the suspension but probably not enough to make not using him worth it. If however a team has to forfeit games that a player who is using has played in then the team is going to take a very proactive approach to making sure that a player isnt using and will probably not even consider using a player that is very suspiciuos. If the Giants had to forfeit games that Bonds played in if he got caught not only would they lose Bonds, they would also be playing in front of the players wives in most of the home games the rest of the season. Which would offset any positive gains that may have been there by using him to begin with. By the way I was just using Bonds as an example. It definetly wouldnt be worth the risk for a team to use a Jason Grimseley. Secondly the dont ask dont tell system the players are using now would be out the window. I would think that clean players would have no problem letting teams know who is unclean if they thought games would be forfeited. Than if a player who is cleaned gets accused all he would have to do is give a blood test to prove his innocence. If he would be unwilling to give a test than a team wouldnt play him and it would be obvious why and the player would be blackballed from the game. I know innocent until proven guilty the American way and all that. One thing I have learned in may vast experience of working is that basic American criminal justice rules do no always apply in the work place. So to the players who are reaping more than their Just rewards for playing baseball who would cry over it all I would have to say is "get over it" Also if a player has been caught or blackballed it would be his responsibility to prove he is clean to any team that may give him another chance. Not them hoping he is clean so they wouldnt even give him the chance. Lastly I dont think you would need the Union to sign off on this. This would be team games getting forfeited not players being fined or suspended. You could just keep the current penalties in place. So I would contend that at the end of the day the thing that matters the most is championships, this should be what is at stake if a player choses to use banned substances. If this isnt what is at stake you are never really going to get this cleaned up. On a similar subject, now that this has blown the lid off the silliness that baseball has "cleaned up its act" When will the mighty ESPN start considering another league that clearly has issues also with performance enhancing drugs yes the NFL

I do believe that Pierre has been better the last couple of weeks, maybe that is just perception though. Maybe having another guy that Dusty will use batting lead-off on the team has inspired him some.

When Lee and Pagan come back doesnt it make the most sense to DFA 2 out of these 3, Perez, Mabry and Bynum? Somehow I am guessing that the Cubs will do something that doesnt make sense.

They have Brady to high. You would have to give him all the credit for the 3 super bowl wins to be that high and that is just not true. Joe Namath also way to high.

About the Yankees. They are in danger of becoming the 3rd best in their division this yr and by next year lucky to be a .500 team. They really havent made good decisions the last couple of yrs. That and a dried up minor league system has left them old, way overpaid and tired. I think their payroll will always keep them competitive but they are nowhere near being a WS contending team.