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The Voice of Reason replied to CubsWin22's topic in MLB Draft, International Signings, Amateur Baseball
They won't. Fans fall in love with "their players." I understand fan sentiment in Baltimore is running 9:1 against trading Tejada for "just Prior." -
From Paul Ladewski and the Daily Southtown: http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/Acurrent/ladewski.htm
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Assuming the Cubs get Tejada or Lugo for SS and move Cedeno to 2B, I'd take Wilkerson or Ibanez for Walker.
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With all due respect, I think my Garland trade proposal (which is buried in one of the many Tejada threads) makes a lot more sense for all sides. It goes like this: Scott Gregor (The Herald reporter for the Sox) said the Sox need to trade Garland (to get the budget down from $95 to $90 million) for prospects with minimal contracts. OK here's what the Cubs do. Keep in mind the Orioles want an established pitcher(s) and not prospects. Trade prospects to the Sox for Garland and then package Garland with Williams and Cedeno for Tejada. The Sox unload Garland, Orioles unload Tejada and get some established pitchers, the Cubs get Tejada. Everbody's happy. Sure it probably won't happen but it does make sense.
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Scott Gregor (Bruce's counterpart for the Sox) said they need to trade Garland (to get down from $95 to $90 million) for prospects with minimal contracts. OK here's what the Cubs do. Keep in mind the Orioles want an established pitcher(s) and not prospects. Trade prospects to the Sox for Garland and then package Garland with Williams and Cedeno for Tejada. The Sox unload Garland, Orioles unload Tejada and get some established pitchers, the Cubs get Tejada. Everbody's happy. Sure it probably won't happen but it does make sense. You know, that sounds like a great deal for all teams involved considering their goals. However, I could see the Sox refusing to give us Garland specifically because they know we'd probably flip him for Tejada. They can get just as good prospects from another team without helping their in-city rivals in getting another big star. Plus, our getting Tejada would steal their offseason thunder. Since we gave them Garland in the first place for practically nothing, I would think the least they could do is give him back for some decent prospects. :wink:
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Scott Gregor (Bruce's counterpart for the Sox) said they need to trade Garland (to get down from $95 to $90 million) for prospects with minimal contracts. OK here's what the Cubs do. Keep in mind the Orioles want an established pitcher(s) and not prospects. Trade prospects to the Sox for Garland and then package Garland with Williams and Cedeno for Tejada. The Sox unload Garland, Orioles unload Tejada and get some established pitchers, the Cubs get Tejada. Everbody's happy. Sure it probably won't happen but it does make sense.
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The latest from Boston on the story that just won't go away. Tejada still in sights -- Sox balk at dealing pitcher with Ramirez By Michael Silverman/ Red Sox Notebook The Red Sox, White Sox and Cubs are believed to be the most persistent suitors of disgruntled Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada, according to a source close to Tejada yesterday, but other teams have been calling as well. Tejada wants to be traded to a “winning team,” said the source, and the Red Sox continue to be atop, or near the top, of Tejada’s wish list. In recent days, Tejada has seemed to back away from last week’s statements requesting a change of scenery. Much like the Red Sox had to initially keep silent or deny Manny Ramirez’ privately expressed desire to be traded, the Orioles have made every effort to have Tejada realize that he does himself and the Orioles no favors in trade discussions with other teams by repeating his disgruntled sentiments. The Red Sox probably remain a longshot to snare Tejada with a trade offer of Ramirez. The Orioles want at least another pitcher in addition to Ramirez, and the Baltimore Sun reported that the Red Sox balked at giving up a hurler as well as a pitching prospect.
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Nothing on the Cubs but he did say so far in his opinion the White Sox have had the best off-season (citing Thome, Vasquez and Konerko). :cry:
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Nice perspective from Miller. His conclusion - good for the players but usually not for the teams. http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9099003
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I hardly call hoping for Ibanez and his 801 OPS to become available is optimism. Wilson's is 811 (wouldn't cost any prospects) and Burnitz's is 833 (also wouldn't have cost prospects). Jones is a little lower, but he's also 3 years younger.[/quote] Meant to be a hypothetical example. Although I'm more interested in Ibanez than a guy who made $12 million last year (Wilson), is washed up (Burnitz) or is Jock Jones.
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I heard they are already talking to Jocketty. :wink:
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I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player? fact is..i do not care when they sign. the other fact is hendry has proven time and again that we should expect any move. the longer we wait, the less likely we get anyone of consequence. yeah we got a quality player late last year in burnitz....there are not many options out there and there will be far less in january,febrauary, march.... I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player? And please, don't give me your opinion, I would like just the facts. :D I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player? fact is..i do not care when they sign. the other fact is hendry has proven time and again that we should expect any move. the longer we wait, the less likely we get anyone of consequence. yeah we got a quality player late last year in burnitz....there are not many options out there and there will be far less in january,febrauary, march.... That may or may not be true. Humor my optimism for a second. Let's say the Mariners who need pitching overspend on Millwood. Then having just signed Everett, they decide previously untouchable Raul Ibanez and his $4.5 million salary is no longer within their budget and they trade him to the Cubs for a couple of low-priced prospects. Rather than panicking and signing Jock Jones or Preston Wilson now, the Cubs end up with a guy who has a career .800 OBS.
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A little more perspective: Cardinals were coming off 4 out of 5 years of playoff appearances on December 18th of last year, including a 1st place finish and a trip to the World Series. It doesn't kill their fan base to hold out for something better to come along. They also followed up the moves after December 18th with another 1st place finish. The Cubs lost more games than they won last year. Even more perspective: Good transactions happen and good players are obtained after the Winter Meetings. Don't forget the Sosa for Bell trade wasn't made until the middle of spring training - I remember because I was there. I recall listening to 99.99% of the Cubs fans there state how one-sided the trade was - in favor of the White Sox.
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A little perspective. Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th. Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time. If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.
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Meh, Mora will be 34 next year, and Aram > Tejada, so I don't think that's terrible for them. Aram > Tejada Based on? Please factor defense, attitude and durability into your criteria. Better offensive production that isn't made up by defense, similar contract, and most importantly Ramirez is several years younger. Tejada career - .338/.477/.815 ARam career - .329/.481/.810 Offensive production similar. That said I not sure I'd rank a 27 year old 3B who averages 142 games played a year over a 30 year old SS who average 162 games played a year with a MVP trophy on his mantle and who by all accounts I've read is considered a "gamer and team leader." Not a slam at ARam (I hope his conditioning "program" pays off) just kudos to Mr. Tejada. Those career numbers are very misleading since Tejada has 2 more prime seasons under his belt. Ramirez is the better offensive player. And if we are considering attitude and what not, wouldn't Tejada's attempts to be traded cast a negative against his character? No, I would never consider wanting to win a character flaw.
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Carlos Lee in 2007??
The Voice of Reason replied to E.J.'s topic in MLB Draft, International Signings, Amateur Baseball
Bobby Cox. Maybe he could talk Schurhoelz into coming with as GM or better yet Team President. -
Meh, Mora will be 34 next year, and Aram > Tejada, so I don't think that's terrible for them. Aram > Tejada Based on? Please factor defense, attitude and durability into your criteria. Better offensive production that isn't made up by defense, similar contract, and most importantly Ramirez is several years younger. Tejada career - .338/.477/.815 ARam career - .329/.481/.810 Offensive production similar. That said I not sure I'd rank a 27 year old 3B who averages 142 games played a year over a 30 year old SS who average 162 games played a year with a MVP trophy on his mantle and who by all accounts I've read is considered a "gamer and team leader." Not a slam at ARam (I hope his conditioning "program" pays off) just kudos to Mr. Tejada.
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Meh, Mora will be 34 next year, and Aram > Tejada, so I don't think that's terrible for them. Aram > Tejada Based on? Please factor defense, attitude and durability into your criteria.
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Os get: Aram, Cedeno, Novoa, decent pitching prospect from the Bosox Os give up: Miggy, Mora Evidently God isn't an Orioles fan.
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Trade Garland ($6million) and Uribe ($3 million), get a couple a million a year (for 4 years) back from the O's and your not far from Tejada's salary. Put McCarthy in the starting rotation.
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Baltimore writer suggests dealing Tejada for prospects (read not Prior or Z). Hope he's right. http://www.baltimoresun.com:/sports/baseball/bal-sp.connolly13dec13,1,240601.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball
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Most of the teams considering signing Nomar would use him at 3B, LF or 1B (Not SS). The Cubs are covered in those positions wtih Aram, Murton and D. Lee. Convential wisdom says Nomar no longer has the range to play SS.
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Any mention of the clause in Tejada's contract that says he can be a free agent one year after being traded?
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Let me get this straight. For a former MVP and currently the best shortstop in baseball we give up: Hill (unproven but a lot of potential) Patterson (so far a failure) Williams (5th starter at best) Cedeno (unproven but a lot of potential) Guzman (potential but appears injury prone) I'd do that trade in a second.
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I wouldn't budge on Saladbar.