Sarcastic

It didn't look spectacular, he just moved quickly towards the second base bag to make the play. Showed some range, I guess.

Well the pitcher just hit one hard, that got over pierre's head. His stuff and control look better. Most of the hits were groundballs. The one he gave up to the pitcher was his worst pitch, a hanging curveball right around the middle of the zone. Other than that, he's improved a lot.

That's better than paying your shortstop 4.5 million to do that. Oh, wait... :lol: Well, I agree with this assessment. Get a REALLY good bat for either LF or RF and get a really good SP. And this team could honestly be competitive. I don't think Cedeno is likely to do that. That would be a big increase in walk rate on Cedeno's part. He seems like more of a slap hitter who would have to rely on putting the ball in play.

Was that run earned or unearned?

And Cedeno breaks up the inning as he is throw out at third after Prior hits one through the infield. Cubs still lead 4-0, though.

Izturis ground out knows in Pierre. 1-0 Cubs.

I'll still watch until he melts down. Shouldn't take long.

Of course Prior hasn't looked like himself, he's been injured most of the season. They need to give him time. I know that Cubs fans would regret giving up another great pitcher for a short term player if Prior, as he easily could, even partly regains his old form. I do think they should go after Jones, but not if the price is one of our best hopes for the future. Some people have given up on him, but I don't think he's done yet. If he can't manage to throw a full season by the time he is eligible for free agency, they could give up on him, but before then, he's just got too much promise to let go for a short term player.

Im pretty sure the Braves would ask for Prior in return for Andrew Jones. If that is the case, would you guys still do it? I would. No. Jones is going to turn 30 soon, and he is very expensive. Prior is both younger and cheaper, and potentially a better player. He may have been injured in the past but there is no reason to give up on him yet. Besides, the Braves can't be too attached to Jones if they put him on waivers. I don't think their bargaining position is that strong.

He's signed through 2007 at $13.5m. We could extend him if we felt it appropriate of course. I'd rather spend $2.5m more (at most) and lock up Soriano in the off-season. Why? Besides this season, I don't think Soriano's stats has been better than Jones' besides this season.

How many teams are looking for an OF and have an extra 13.5 million dollars to spend?

What is Jones' contract like? Would they have to renegotiate after this year?

You've questioned others' opinions in this thread itself. That's how it works on message boards, as long as no one makes it personal. Yeah I realize how stupid my post was looking back on it. I apologize for that. The thing that ticked me off, was that he basically laughed in my face, because he thought my opinion didnt matter at all. If you using batting average instead of OBP as an argument for Pierre over Player X makes someone laugh, it makes someone laugh. It made me laugh too. I don't think we can conduct a reasonable conversation when we start laughing at outside opinions, no matter how wrong they seem. There are situations in which laughing at people is OK, but a discussion forum is not one of them.

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more. batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS. in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Is it wrong to have a different opinion?? Of course it is. What, did you think this forum was for debate? But seriously, OBP is a much more important stat for a leadoff hitter than average. Especially for the guy who hardly ever bats with anyone on base, a walk is just as good as a single. That said, I don't know if I believe that Roberts will be any good next year. He is going to be 35, whereas Pierre will still be under 30. I think my preference would depend on the contract given out. If the team could do much with the money saved by ging after Roberts, then by all means, do it. I was just giving some info on the two players. Then I was attacked for having a different opinion. Seriously man that is messed up. No you weren't. You were "attacked" for using a horrible stat to judge a hitter. Attacked is an overstatement, but people being laughed at for their opinion shouldn't happen even if it is an opinion that people consider extremely wrong, and doesn't have much statistical support.

Good god, man! How hard is it? If you want your protoypical "leadoff" hitters, and you're going to narrow it down to speedy guys, then your #1 priority is to get a guy that gets on base. And guess what? Roberts gets on base more. batting average with get you laughed off this board anyway, but it'll especially get you laughed off this board when YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FREAKING LEADOFF HITTERS. in fact, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Is it wrong to have a different opinion?? Of course it is. What, did you think this forum was for debate? But seriously, OBP is a much more important stat for a leadoff hitter than average. Especially for the guy who hardly ever bats with anyone on base, a walk is just as good as a single. That said, I don't know if I believe that Roberts will be any good next year. He is going to be 35, whereas Pierre will still be under 30. I think my preference would depend on the contract given out. If the team could do much with the money saved by going after Roberts, then by all means, do it.

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him. Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter. Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back. Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions: 1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role. 2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take. Dave Roberts would be cost efficient until Pie is ready. Roberts is getting old. I don't know how much longer he'll keep up the improvement that he's shown in the last two years, considering his age. How much does he stand to make?

I think some of the realistic lineups are a tad bit unrealistic. I don't fault people for being optimists, but I think what we are more likely to see next year is something very similar to the current team with a extra bat for the OF, someone like Lee, and an extra #2 pitcher if we get lucky. The only way the team is likely to contend next year is if the following occur (already assuming we get the two FAs): 1) Prior has a full, healthy, productive season. 2) Lee comes back and produces well. 3) Barrett doesn't lose too much production from this year. 4) Pierre and Izturis return to old form. 5) Jones matches his current season. 6) Cedeno improves. 7) At least one of the young pitchers (Marmol, Marshall Hill) is really ready for next year and has a solid season. 8) There are no other long injuries to key players. If all these things happen, the team could be solid. I don't think it seems probable, but it seems even less probable that we will be able to swing trades for two or three good ballplayers without giving up more than a few of our starters who are stuck between AAA and the MLB, as some people are hoping for.

The thread says the game is on WGN, but I'm getting a weather report. Is there a rain delay?

Is Arizona's reliever's name really spelled with three d's? There is a conflict in your post, Fred.

Luckily, it doesn't make a difference this time.

Did they say that he had changed his stance, or does he just look different when he bats?

What? When did that happen? Fred's stats for the last 14 games show him still sucking, though I guess it could be a more short term streak.

didn't hendry actually say he could have had a couple of high-level prospects for maddux, but chose izturis instead? if hendry actually did say that, then people have every right to criticize what he got in return. Yes, he said it when he was talking to Len and Bob during the game. If im the Dodgers, im not dealing 2 highly regarded prospects for a 40yr old pitcher. According to Hendry, he turned down two "top prospects" from the Dodgers when he realized that he could get Izturis. That is what he said on air with Len and Bob. So obviously Coletti was willing to trade those "top prospects" unless Hendry is lying. My guess is that it was two prospects, but not the actual top prospects that everyone has been salivating over. I wouldn't put it past Hendry to stretch the truth to make his move seem better. Sounds like he was just doing a sales pitch to me. On the other hand, if he really was offered two top prospects or Izturis, he'd be stupid to pick Izturis.

Well, Prior does not have his good stuff today. Still, I have to think some of those HRs would not have made it if the wind wasn't going straight out. As long as Prior can throw the ball for the next two months without getting injured, I don't care if it takes him the full two months to regain his control. Still, there is no way I am watching the rest of this game. Seeing him pitch like this is depressing.

Eight. Two for Pierre, one for Neifi, and five for Ramirez.