C.C.

Now it's funny!!!! Ahhh....The joke that keeps on giving and giving and giving.....

Weaver is more than a prospect, though. So is Kendrick. Exactly. People are acting like if Z is moved we won't we any real return in results player-wise for another year or more. Z can get you top tier guys, either young or established, that can play now, solve multiple problems and play (hopefully) every day. True but does Hendry see a different type of talent than we do? He has never traded an impact player in his tenure in Chicago. Large market teams shouldn't. That's a fallacy. Trading an impact player smartly can work for any team, especially the big market ones that ideally have other positions already taken care of and can focus on using that impact player to fix multiple problems. I should've said most large market Team don't. I can't remeber the last time NY or Boston teams traded away thier star player entering their prime.

Weaver is more than a prospect, though. So is Kendrick. Exactly. People are acting like if Z is moved we won't we any real return in results player-wise for another year or more. Z can get you top tier guys, either young or established, that can play now, solve multiple problems and play (hopefully) every day. True but does Hendry see a different type of talent than we do? He has never traded an impact player in his tenure in Chicago. Large market teams shouldn't.

The trouble with waiting is that the Cubs are unlikely to be out of it come July. It will be impossible from a PR perspective to deal Z in July if you're within 4 games of 1st. You deal him now, you can weather the storm of criticism if you end up contending. Call Bill Stoneman. Ask for Weaver, Kendrick and Adenhart. Call the Yankees and ask for Hughes, Sanchez + Tabata. Let them know the Angels are considering the other package. I don't think either team would bite, but if I didn't get the packages I'd simply hang on to Z and take my chances. Define "take my chances" 1. Go to arby and let him walk after 2007 or 2. Take my chances that I can get him to sign a long term near Zito deal Let me be more precise... I'd be working two separate paths at the current time. 1a) I would be working aggressively to get him signed to a hometown discount contract in the range of 5 years, $80M 1b) I would be working the phones with the teams that had a set of three premier prospects to get a trade that I was convinced improved the overall talent level of the organization If neither of those paths bore fruit, I would complete the season with Z on the staff. If, in the unlikely event that the Cubs are completely out of it in July, I'd look to trade Z. I don't think that's going to happen, though. So next October I would: 2) work aggressively to get Z signed to a hometown discount deal 3) If that didn't work, I would offer him arbitration and take the draft picks when he signs elsewhere That just about sums it up in a nutshell.

Or you let him become a FA and get top draft picks. You're clearly not going to trade him before the deadline at this point, when you've went all-in to win this year. I agree. Barring serveral major setbacks and injuries, I can't see us not contending this year. You aren't going to trade Z if you are in the race. Just won't happen.

But why would Z sign a 3 or 4 year deal for 14M per? That won't happen. With all of Z talk he wants Zito's contract.

I agree...Until we can get someone to replace him, let's hang on and try to sign him.

Me want French Dip.

Cubs odds are always like that because they get a ton of action. Vegas needs to cover itself so they give them bad odds in the off chance that the cubs actually win. I'm assuming that by bad odds you meant good odds because otherwise this sentence doesn't really make any sense, unless I'm just not getting what you're saying. If, as you say, Vegas is covering itself in the off chance the Cubs actually win because so many people bet money on them, then they would want to give the Cubs better than their actual odds (lower number:1), so that if they did win the payout would be smaller. Bad odds or worse than actual odds (higher number:1) would increase the amount the casinos would have to payout. you couldnt just infer that? Bad odds are bad odds. I've never heard good odds referred to as bad odds before. You're a little late, though. He explained it already. He was coming at it from the bettors point of view. I get it now. :oops: What am I to infer from your post, IMB? Hmm, I wonder. Certainly nothing of a personal nature. Oh, and thanks for your response to the evidence on Rusch that you requested and that I PM'd you. You're right, the evidence is undeniably clear and my statements about Rusch are irrefutably supported by them. It was big of you to take the time to respond as graciously as you did. Ohh Ohh, whats the Rusch argument, I want to get in on that! He said that Rusch was good 75% of the time he was a cub. I asked him to go ahead and explain himself. He wasn't secure enough in his facts, so he just pm'd me. The pm was basically word for word his post from an earlier thread that I had already responded to, so I didnt feel the need to go through it again, especially since it was just in pm form. Oh, this was months ago, so this whole thing is pretty childish and expected. Way to go cubswin, you reached new low. Your ridiculous Rusch argument has nothing to do with you expressing your pathetic desire to feel superior to someone (nilo) who was harmlessly stating something that only a complete mongoloid couldnt figure out on his own. Ain't amateur psychology grand. For the 2nd time, I misunderstood nilodnayr. He explained it. I got it. In the post in which I supposedly desired to feel superior to someone else, I wrote,"unless I'm just not getting what you're saying". Yep, pretty superior sounding to me. I PM'd you the Rusch evidence so as to not hijack a thread anymore than had already happened and you know it. I suggest we do the same in this thread. Mods, does it get anymore needlessly personal than this? What is this guy's problem? Ignore it.

They spent the money, so I have no problem spending a little more.

Hopefully at the expense of Lilly. Zambrano Hill Prior Veal Gallagher would be an insane rotation. That would be a very unproven rotation. Hopefully Veal and Gallagher pan out on the ML level.

Not a fair comparison. Z has a history of being healthy, Wood didn't. So you feel comfortable giving Z 7 years, 18 mil a year. Of course not. But how do you know that's what's he's asking? There was an article, zam's agent came out and said zam wanted 18 mil for 6-7 years. Ofcourse that's how they work, ask high. But I'm just sayin. If it came to paying 17-18 mil a year for 6-7 years, would you do that? Or would you rather have a-rod. That's really the discussion of this thread. It's not that simple, again, it depends were we are in the regular season. If we are making a playoff push and need Zambrano, then no, you role the dice and keep him. I don't think the discussion is that black and white? To answer your question if Z wants that kind of money and won't budge, and we don't have a need for Zambrano next season, then yes of course, by all means make the deal. Then of course you gotta hope that AROD won't opt. out of his contract.

Not a fair comparison. Z has a history of being healthy, Wood didn't. So you feel comfortable giving Z 7 years, 18 mil a year. Of course not. But how do you know that's what's he's asking?

Not a fair comparison. Z has a history of being healthy, Wood didn't.

Not sure I agree with that. So you would trade Zambrano in the middle of the season if he is not going to re-sign with the Cubs? What if the Cubs are in the playoff race, then would you still trade him? So your options would be to either trade Zambrano now, which would make no sense, or you trade him in the middle of the season when the Cubs are in the playoff chase. Im keeping Zambrano. That probably depends a whole lot on what Prior, Miller, and Wood are doing healthwise and performance-wise. I don't care how good they are doing. If we are in the hunt for the playoffs don't tempt fate by trading Zambrano then have one of those guys go down right after the transaction is made. Not even if you're trading for a guy like A-Rod, who can potentially win you games every day, as opposed to Z, who is only out there every 5 days? You can't just not care how the others are doing...If Prior is looking Prior and Hill is keeping up his improvements, ou can definitely think about trading Z. Add on Miller getting healthy, Lilly succeeding or Guzman finally clicking and it becomes even more do-able. A lot of "if's," but as the season goes along, if enough of those "if's" become reality, I'd pull the trigger. It all depends. If Z is having a Cy Young type of year, you are going to need him for the stretch drive and the playoffs. I really doubt that between Prior, Hill and whomever else will give us enough pitching to get rid of Z. I just don't see it happening.

Not sure I agree with that. So you would trade Zambrano in the middle of the season if he is not going to re-sign with the Cubs? What if the Cubs are in the playoff race, then would you still trade him? So your options would be to either trade Zambrano now, which would make no sense, or you trade him in the middle of the season when the Cubs are in the playoff chase. Im keeping Zambrano. That probably depends a whole lot on what Prior, Miller, and Wood are doing healthwise and performance-wise. I don't care how good they are doing. If we are in the hunt for the playoffs don't tempt fate by trading Zambrano then have one of those guys go down right after the transaction is made.

It's great to hear, from a pitcher who relied so heavily on striking out batters in the minors, that there's value to saving pitches. He just figured this out? Did Greg Maddux need to tell him this? yeah, what a loser. i wish he were dead. Lame. Let's all go forward on this thread, please? Thanks. We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and twirling, always twirling toward freedom! Very lame.

I'd deal Z only if it makes the Cubs better and IMO ARod at SS or Miggy Cabrera at RF would do that. AROD (if he can play SS) or Cabrera yes, Miggy not so sure. Miggy is Cabrera Actually, I was just looking at his stats from last year and he had a solid year. Let me strike that. But I'd rather have Cabrera for his age and he still hasn't peaked yet. No, Miggy is Cabrera -- Miguel Cabrera. I'm not saying Tejada and Cabrera are similar, Cuse was referring to Cabrera. FATHER: No, no, just keep him in here-- GUARD #1: Until you, or anyone else,-- FATHER: No, not anyone else, just me-- GUARD #1: Just you. GUARD #2: Hic! FATHER: Get back. GUARD #1: Get back. FATHER: Right? GUARD #1: Right, we'll stay here until you get back. FATHER: And, uh, make sure he doesn't leave. GUARD #1: What? FATHER: Make sure 'e doesn't leave. GUARD #1: The Prince? LOL! Now I see what you mean. That's was funny. Too many Miggy's in the ML.

I'd deal Z only if it makes the Cubs better and IMO ARod at SS or Miggy Cabrera at RF would do that. AROD (if he can play SS) or Cabrera yes, Miggy not so sure. Miggy is Cabrera Actually, I was just looking at his stats from last year and he had a solid year. Let me strike that. But I'd rather have Cabrera for his age and he still hasn't peaked yet.

I'd deal Z only if it makes the Cubs better and IMO ARod at SS or Miggy Cabrera at RF would do that. AROD (if he can play SS) or Cabrera yes, Miggy not so sure.

Why would you deal Prior? He has almost no trade value. Z is about to fall off a cliff, if his sudden lack of control and ridiculous abuse is any indication. Want to pay Zito money for Wood part II? - except this contract would be even worse. If Prior returns to form he will have trade value. Z is 26 years old and never been hurt, you can't assume he's about to fall off a cliff? Although if he wants more the Zito type of money, I'd think about trading him . No pitcher is worth a 7-8 year contract.

I'd rather win.

I wouldn't deal Z. That's crazy. Deal the only guy that's been healthy? And if Prior returns to form, would he want to even stay here? I'd deal Prior before I'd deal Z.

Worry about yourself Bozo! JK. :wink:

That SS name better be Alex Rodriguez. If Prior is healthy and ptiching well he's too important to trade. can we throw in Wood? You wouldn't get nearly as much. If, IF, Zambrano doesn't suddenly crash due to injury, Hill keeps being the 2nd half Hill, or at least something close to it, Miller is looking good and Lilly isn't totally flaming out, I would also agree with seriously considering a better-pitching Prior, for the right deal. I think the biggest factor might be Guzman. If he can finally turn it around and show that he can step up a la Hill, I'd push a healthy Prior for a big trade. If they are making a playoff push, no way they trade Prio.