C.C.

Don't lump me in with that crowd. I could give a crap if someone said the Cubs were lucky to win the World Series, primarily because I'd be too busy celebrating the fact that the Cubs won the World Series. I personally feel it's very fair to say that luck plays a large role. Any fan who gets upset because someone said their team was lucky to win needs to grow a thicker skin. Luck or not, a World Series title is still a World Series title. I really don't care if the Cubs win on a walk-off homer or a bad-hop grounder as long as they win. Once they win, no one can take that away from us as fans. If people want to call it luck, let them. I agree. I hope that Cubs luck their way into the playoffs and into a Championship. Hell, I'll even wear a "Cubs are so lucky" t-shirt!

What's so funny about it? So I take it you are confident that he's coming back healthy? It's not a mantra, its reality.

Time will tell whether he knows what he's doing. Agreed. They were in a position to be very good with an addition to the roster here and there. They still can be, but if they don't make the necessary moves to be competitive this year, Williams is going to look pretty bad with these moves. Detroit has improved their team this offseason. Proof is the WS ring. There are no lucky WS championships. You win it, you've proven yourself. Cub fans may not like that because it's the WS, but believe me if the Cubs won one and people called it luck, we'd be crying foul. So let's be intellectually honest with ourselves, and admit Williams got it done, so he gets the credit. For a team to win the WS everything has to go right. From minimal injuries, to some players having career years. And the Sox had both. So I guess last year is Williams fault for not getting the Sox back in the playoffs right? It's really a silly arguement.

Well, I'm not so sure. Williams also benefit from a staff of average pitchers having career years. I don't think even Williams thought that 2005 squad would win a WS. I think Williams gets far too much credit. We will see...

I so agree. It looks like they are finally hitting their stride. They've had a really rough schedule and it looks to be paying off here. I'm curious to see what they can do against big east teams. Chandler is a stud!

I have serveral life-time diehard Sox fans and they all called me saying the same thing. It might be good for long term or might not, but the fact remains if you can win now why plan for long term.

I think I have an idea. They are preparing for the future. They turned one good pitcher who will be making a lot of money soon into two good pitchers who won't be making a lot of money as soon. IMO, KW is a very good GM and the Sox seem to have a long term plan based on financial wearwithall and baseball acumen. I really like the move, both strategically and tacticly. I wish the Cubs had some long term thinkers running things. But what about next year?

He's a whimp! Get on the bump and pitch! :wink: I've got a feeling he's going to this year. I just feel good about both Rich Hill & Marky Mark. Hill's ready to show what he can really do. Prior's got the motivation of knowing he's on the cusp of losing all that he wanted to achieve in this league. I don't feel good about Prior. I think this is the year when he finally will realize he'll need surgury. I feel better about Wood then I do about Prior.

I really don't see where Reyes has a higher ceiling then Hill?

He's a whimp! Get on the bump and pitch! :wink:

This is one of the best mental images of baseball I've had all offseason. Wrigley during this would rival Dodger Stadium in Gagné's heyday. No Metallica/AC-DC theme song needed, just the place going nuts. I pray Wood is healthy next year. He really is a blast to watch when he is on.

I think they have the best rotation in the Central with or without Miller and Prior.

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about. and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless. And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot. That's just it. It's not certain that Guzman and Marshall will get their shot. The Cubs aren't going to want to toss Marquis aside when he's making $7 mil per season. Look how long they kept throwing Rusch out there, and he was doing a lot worse than I expect Marquis to do. It's one thing if he's blocking the younger pitchers while actually pitching well. It's another if he's blocking these guys while giving up 5.5 runs per game. At least Guzman and Marshall have options left, and both could probably benefit from some time at AAA. But if you're going to sign someone to fill a spot in the rotation until one of them is ready, you sign someone to a Wade Miller-type contract, not a three-year expensive deal. There are two things we can hope for at this point: 1. Marquis pitches around league average, so his contract won't be too difficult to trade if/when one of the youngsters is ready to take a spot in the rotation. 2. Marquis instantly becomes Cy Young calibur as soon as he puts on a Cubs uniform. Obviously, #1 is a lot more realistic, but still isn't a guarantee. If Marquis' ERA hovers around 6.00 again this year, he's going to hurt this team on the field, and he'll be very difficult to trade with his contract. Nothing is a guarantee and lets just see what happens. Let's see if Rothschild can actually earn his keep and fix'em. Again, someone is bound to get hurt and one of the kids will get a shot.

what's so "proven" about marquis? that he's put up one slightly better than average year in the past five? wow, that's something to get excited about. and if marquis pitches anything like he did last year, i'd prefer that he not handle the work load of a full season. putting up a 5.50 era for 175 innings is pretty worthless. And I can ask you what's so proven about Gooz and Marshall? Again, nothing is a sure thing and I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. If Gooz and Marshall are so much better they'll get their shot.

In his brief middle relief stint I recall him not showing any wildness.

Why are people so obsessed with this "proven" label? What has Marquis proven? That he can be terrible? Please don't respond to me with some 15 win garbage. I sure hope at least one of Guzman or Marshall can outdo what Marquis did last year, because otherwise, what in the world is our farm system producing? Why is it such a leap of faith to assume that one of these pitchers (Guzman, Marshall, Marmol) can perform just as adequately as, if not better than, Marquis for MUCH less money and no big long-term financial committment, along with the added benefit that you may be developing a young pitcher that you can slot into the rotation for years to come? Didn't we take that leap of faith last year? One of these guys could be good but the chances of all three of them being good is one huge leap of faith. We're not talking about last year, we're talking about this year. You only need one of them to be good to fill one rotation spot. But if you think it's worth 3 years and 20 million dollars for the assuredness that we'll have someone who has shown he can be a below average pitcher eating up innings in our rotation, far be it from me to change your mind. I'd rather have too much pitching then not enough. It seems he and Rothschild feel confident that they found what was wrong with him. So let's just see how it goes. Chances are one of the kids will be brought up because the staff isn't going to stay healthy for the whole year. Hopefully Gooz can spot start and pitch long relief. I'm not here to change your mind, but I'm not going to freak out about the signing. Let's just wait and see what happens.

Why are people so obsessed with this "proven" label? What has Marquis proven? That he can be terrible? Please don't respond to me with some 15 win garbage. I sure hope at least one of Guzman or Marshall can outdo what Marquis did last year, because otherwise, what in the world is our farm system producing? Why is it such a leap of faith to assume that one of these pitchers (Guzman, Marshall, Marmol) can perform just as adequately as, if not better than, Marquis for MUCH less money and no big long-term financial committment, along with the added benefit that you may be developing a young pitcher that you can slot into the rotation for years to come? Didn't we take that leap of faith last year? One of these guys could be good but the chances of all three of them being good is one huge leap of faith.

That'll be good enough to win the Central. I wouldn't count on that, and neither should the Cubs. Especially for the amount of money they're spending. I woudn't count on it but what team in our division got better this off-season?

That'll be good enough to win the Central.

The biggest mystery is if his shoulder is suspect, why in the hell did he file for FA??

That's not being realistic.

It's very important when you have a ton of near ML ready, but not quite options. Guys that give you 200 innings at a league average ERA become quite valuable when you're looking at Marmol, Marshall, Mateo, and Guzman. One of those guys in a decent rotation is not a problem. 2+ of those guys (like last year) is a recipe for bad things. Lilly and Marquis are not world burners. No one is claiming that. They do prevent the severe swings of rookie pitchers, who don't (generally speaking of course) know how to keep their teams in ballgames. Marquis won a ton of games w/o his best stuff last season. Some of that was run support and some of that was knowing how to pitch. Same with Lilly, who somehow managed to get away with being a flyball pitcher in a bandbox for years. If you tell me I can have an up and down rookie with a high ceiling or a guy who's going to give you 200 mediocre to bad innings (like Marquis), I'll take the rookie every time. I see no benefit to overpaying some veteran just because he doesn't get hurt, when a pitcher like Guzman or Marshall could give you a similar ERA at a fraction of the cost. So you would feel comfortable going into next season with a staff of: Z Hill Guzman Marshall Prior\Miller Not me.

I can understand the frustration with Marquis, but to say Prior, Miller, and Guzman are better than he is "without a doubt" and that the Cubs have 7-8 guys who can match his performance is certainly questionable. Prior, Miller, Guzman, and the other young pitchers have a lot of question marks next to their names. I can see saying that about Prior and Miller, both are major league pitchers, and if healthy could out perform Marquis. But Guzman and Marshall are unproven on the ML level, so we have no way of knowing if they can outperform Marquis, let alone handle the work-load of a full season.

Let's hope he figured it out.

It's a lot better then the 3/28! But it still way to many years coming off a dreadful season.