Cubzfan64

The way we've been playing lately, it's more likely that Macias would have tripped and been tagged out :-(

Hey, somebody wanna catch the lights on the way out please??

Yah, I saw that as well - he had his head bowed down in front of him and when he lifted it up slightly he had this huge yawn working. I've yawned at inappropriate times as well, but that sure looked sad!

If I recall correctly, we Wisconsinites also called people from Illinois FIB's - but that's a whole different meaning :-P.

Oh come on now. The players lost this game. All of you blame Dusty for making excuses. Well, Dusty is your excuse. This game was lost by a lack of FUNDAMENTAL baseball. Rundowns, Pitchers moving to first, turning double plays, patience at the plate, NOT swinging at the high fastball, taking walks by a pitcher who has given up almost a walk per inning. I agree that the players lost this game. However, who is responsible for coaching the funadmentals? Of course the coaching staff is, but all you CAN do is coach, then it's up to the players to execute. If these were minor league ballplayers it might be a different story, but there's honestly no excuse whatsoever for major leaguers to have made the mistakes they made tonight - no amount of coaching is going to change that - perhaps too many of our guys just aren't good at playing fundamental baseball????

I'm not even sure you can blame the lack of fundamentals on Dusty this time. The fact as someone else pointed out earlier is that these guys are all major league ballplayers and they KNOW how to play fundamental baseball - the problem was too many of them didn't execute it tonight. I don't think that's Baker's fault.

I've never been a big fan of Michael Barrett personally. I think he generally is a decent offensive catcher - not great, but not bad. I also think he's generally not bad at throwing out runners. My problem has always been that I don't think he is very good at all at calling games and working with pitchers. I know it won't happen because Barrett is a favorite of Hendry's, but I think Barrett has value as someone to trade - if you don't watch him everyday but just look at his stats, he's had 2 decent seasons and catchers are NOT easy to come by. I really wish the Cubs would add to their offense this offseason enough to allow us to add a catcher who is good at calling games and working with pitchers (maybe Blanco could be a starter?). Fundamentally I think Barrett is in the bottom 25% of catchers in the ML. That said - it was a team loss and not the result of any one player despite how it ended. Face it, this is a 0.500 team.

Well, I'll be darned - I didn't think we could find any new ways to lose baseball games, but tonight appears to have proven me wrong.... And we take one more step towards being that phenomenal 0.500 mediocre team we all know and love :-( *sigh*

I can't watch the game so it looks like a line drive base hit to me :-P

Kum bi yah.....

I agree with you wholeheartedly - I would leave it up to his "peers" and fellow ballplayers to decide if he's worthy. And who is to say they won't be a bunch of ex-steroid users? So be it - if that's the case and they feel a player deserves to be in the HOF, who am I to disagree?

I agree with you wholeheartedly - I would leave it up to his "peers" and fellow ballplayers to decide if he's worthy.

Apples and Oranges really. But, I'll disagree. With whatever you want to say about taking steroids, the ultimate point was to win. There is never any potential to throw a game. When betting on your own team, there is that potential. That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either. Although they are certainly not the same things, I equate them both in my mind when I consider a person's character and being deserving of the HOF. I would never vote a person into the baseball HOF if I knew they had used steroids - ESPECIALLY someone who stood in front of millions of people and said they had never used them. I don't care that they may have used them to try to win - that's a terrible argument in my mind. It's cheating any way you stretch it, and it ruins the game imho. Personally I believe in my heart that the use of steroids in baseball has had a much much more detrimental affect on the sport than anything Pete Rose did while gambling. How many young kids who didn't use steroids never made it to the big leagues because of those who did? How many game results were affected by guys who were using steroids? How many championships, MVP's, batting titles, Cy Young awards etc... were affected because of the use of steroids? I just believe that if you're going to forgive someone who is a proven user and allow them into the HOF, you should forgive Pete Rose and allow him in as well. It will be up to the sportswriters to determine if Raffy is going to get into the hall and unlike any of the other sports, baseball has listed character as a determining factor as to whether or not a vote may be cast for someone. Pete Rose has been banned from baseball while Raffy has not and until the penalty for Steroids is a lifetime ban then players that are caught using, still have a chance to get in. Yup - I understand the difference between the two, and I do understand that it will be up to the sportswriters to make or not make the choice, I guess I'm just stating my personal opinion that I would find it hypocritical and it would personally taint the HOF in my eyes for someone who has been caught using steroids to be allowed in, while Pete Rose is not. Again, me personal opinion (and all these are personal opinions) is that neither one of them deserve to be in the HOF, I just think it would be wrong for one to get in while the other does not. As an aside - how is Madison these days? My wife and I both went to college there and if we had been able to find good paying jobs there in our fields of interest we'd still be there! We both LOVED the city and campus! Madison is good. Heading down to the Memorial Union Terrace for a few beers tonight in fact. When did you go to school here? I was a student for '89 to '94? *sigh* Memorial Union Terrace and a beer - there's nothing quite that good!! I went to the UW Steven's Point in 83-84 then transferred to the UW Madison where I graduated with a BS in chemistry in 86. My wife went there from 84-87 - I transferred to Madison because it got to the point eventually where I was skipping Thursday and Friday classes to road trip down to see her, then skipping Monday classes cause I didn't want to leave - seemed like I might as well just transfer :-). I lived in some apartments right off State Street for a couple years and then we moved out to the West side of town when I graduated. Since we got married, we've lived in Madison, Cottage Grove, Port Washington, Milwaukee, Champaign IL, Newman IL, Decatur IL and now a couple years ago moved to Londonderry, NH (about 40 miles N of Boston). We both miss Wisconsin plenty, but it's nice to have distance from family a bit too :-). After a bunch of years in IL, it's also very nice to move to a state that has hills, trees and water much like WI - IL was nothing but corn and beans as far as you could see :-(. Of all the college campuses I've seen, Madison's is by far the most fun and the nicest. Glad to say hi to a fellow Badger :-)

Apples and Oranges really. But, I'll disagree. With whatever you want to say about taking steroids, the ultimate point was to win. There is never any potential to throw a game. When betting on your own team, there is that potential. That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either. Although they are certainly not the same things, I equate them both in my mind when I consider a person's character and being deserving of the HOF. I would never vote a person into the baseball HOF if I knew they had used steroids - ESPECIALLY someone who stood in front of millions of people and said they had never used them. I don't care that they may have used them to try to win - that's a terrible argument in my mind. It's cheating any way you stretch it, and it ruins the game imho. Personally I believe in my heart that the use of steroids in baseball has had a much much more detrimental affect on the sport than anything Pete Rose did while gambling. How many young kids who didn't use steroids never made it to the big leagues because of those who did? How many game results were affected by guys who were using steroids? How many championships, MVP's, batting titles, Cy Young awards etc... were affected because of the use of steroids? I just believe that if you're going to forgive someone who is a proven user and allow them into the HOF, you should forgive Pete Rose and allow him in as well. It will be up to the sportswriters to determine if Raffy is going to get into the hall and unlike any of the other sports, baseball has listed character as a determining factor as to whether or not a vote may be cast for someone. Pete Rose has been banned from baseball while Raffy has not and until the penalty for Steroids is a lifetime ban then players that are caught using, still have a chance to get in. Yup - I understand the difference between the two, and I do understand that it will be up to the sportswriters to make or not make the choice, I guess I'm just stating my personal opinion that I would find it hypocritical and it would personally taint the HOF in my eyes for someone who has been caught using steroids to be allowed in, while Pete Rose is not. Again, me personal opinion (and all these are personal opinions) is that neither one of them deserve to be in the HOF, I just think it would be wrong for one to get in while the other does not. As an aside - how is Madison these days? My wife and I both went to college there and if we had been able to find good paying jobs there in our fields of interest we'd still be there! We both LOVED the city and campus!

Apples and Oranges really. But, I'll disagree. With whatever you want to say about taking steroids, the ultimate point was to win. There is never any potential to throw a game. When betting on your own team, there is that potential. That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either. Although they are certainly not the same things, I equate them both in my mind when I consider a person's character and being deserving of the HOF. I would never vote a person into the baseball HOF if I knew they had used steroids - ESPECIALLY someone who stood in front of millions of people and said they had never used them. I don't care that they may have used them to try to win - that's a terrible argument in my mind. It's cheating any way you stretch it, and it ruins the game imho. Personally I believe in my heart that the use of steroids in baseball has had a much much more detrimental affect on the sport than anything Pete Rose did while gambling. How many young kids who didn't use steroids never made it to the big leagues because of those who did? How many game results were affected by guys who were using steroids? How many championships, MVP's, batting titles, Cy Young awards etc... were affected because of the use of steroids? I just believe that if you're going to forgive someone who is a proven user and allow them into the HOF, you should forgive Pete Rose and allow him in as well.

A VERY pathetic one imho! I heard an interview with Curt Schilling right after Palmeiro was "outed" and he had an interesting comment. He said that after his testimony he got to talking to more former players and one of them told him that in his estimation, the most positive aspect of using steroids (other than healing faster from injuries) was that each and every day felt like the first week of the baseball season - you feel rejuvenated, healthy and on top of your game every single day. Schilling said he believes more than anything else, THAT's the main temptation players have to contend with. One last little comment - if anyone who is truly found guilty of using steroids ever has a chance to get into the HOF, Pete Rose should be voted in first.

=; Cubs suck. They're finished. Wait 'til next year. :eye: Just kidding. Felt like peeing in your Cheerios. Hey, thanks! My cheerois weren't soggy enough as it is :-P. The potential is there for this to be a "storybook" finish for the Cubs - I know there are a ton of if's, but c'mon, we HAVE to get lucky one of these years don't we????

I promised my wife I'd try very hard to change my pessimistic ways - in general and specifically regarding this season's Cubs. In light of that.... I think the stage is set for a dramatic ending to 2005. Picking up Lawton gives us some OBP and speed at the top of the lineup... Nomar will hopefully come back healthy enough to play 75%+ of the time and provide an offensive shot to the arm.... Scott Williamson could come in and provide that same shot to the arm for the bullpen and give us someone we can consistently rely on, and .... Kerry Wood seems to be taking to the bullpen role very well - both physically and mentally - for the remainder of this season. As it was last year in the wild card chase, the ball is in our court to do with as we choose. I'm really hoping we have a solid last 1/3 of a season and find some way to overcome those above us in the standings. The year Ryno goes into the HOF would be a great year for us to win a WS!

Ahhh, how ironic that it happens the day after tons of fans hear a HOF'r say how the game has changed and made the "he did it naturally" comment about Dawson. Perfect timing Ryno! I'll bet Sandberg cracked up laughing when he heard about it

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread yet or not, but until we know more for certain, keep in mind it may NOT have been steroids - it could have been any of a number of illegal drugs banned by the MLBPA policy.

I'm obviously biased, but I think Ryno's speach was the best of the bunch. Peter Gammons had a very good speach as well and I could have listened to him tell stories all day - Jerry Coleman's speech was the most boring of the bunch - Wade Bogg's just seemed to be way too "practiced" and formal. Ryno's was funny, very heartfelt and as has been pointed out - had some "teeth" to it. I have no idea whether his "jabs" were supposed to be taken as direct hits to Sammy or not, but I took them more as a commentary on some of the things that are "wrong" with baseball. The whole focus of his speech was dedicated to respect - for the game, the organization, his teammates and the fans. I found it interesting that he said they were told not to lift weights in the offseason, but rather to stay limber and flexible (maybe that has something to do with all the injuries we see now?). I also liked his comments about being a complete ballplayer - able to move runners along, bunt, hit for power etc... rather than just one dimensionally be a slugger. I also really liked how he mentioned so many of his teammates - Dernier, Dascenzo, Grace, "Sarge," "Hawk," Bowa, etc... The most touching part (outside of his comments to his wife) was when he said the only thing he regretted was not winning a WS for the fans - that meant alot to me. I didn't see anyone else mention this here - but at one point of the induction ceremony they played a video clip about Boggs before his actual induction. It was kind of a "jab" at Sosa there too when they commented something about him only striking out "x" times over a span of years, then they showed Sammy on the screen and mentioned that he struck out more than that many times in one year. Ryno was a very class act all the way to the end!

This was my first trip to the HOF and I have several observations to make - those of you who attended as well, I'd love to hear your thoughts: 1. Cooperstown NY is a perfect place for the Baseball HOF! The quaint, quiet village fits perfectly with the concept of "anywhere USA" which sort of sums up what baseball is to all of us who love it. It reminded me of the town from "Bull Durham." 2. I ran across so many nice people during my visit - from residents of Cooperstown who were extremely polite and helpful to fellow baseball fans (mostly Cub fans) who made each other feel like we all had known each other forever. It was a very comfortable "family" type experience. 3. I've always been sort of on the fence about whether Pete Rose should be in the HOF or not. After being there and seeing it all, I'm 100% convinced that Pete Rose should be there! The things he accomplished in the game are without a doubt worthy of being inducted. Everyone makes mistakes - I hope a commissioner with balls eventually forgives him and allows his achievements to be recognized and put him in. 4. The only downside to the whole thing for me is somewhat of a weird thing I suppose. It took away alot of the "awe and aura" of many HOF'rs for me to see so many of them virtually only signing autographs for money - I realize that's being petty of me and I understand why many of them are doing it - but it still put a little of a "tarnish" on the whole image for me. There were some guys who seemed to be very cool, smiling and talking to fans, letting them take pictures etc... - then there were guys like Fergie Jenkins signing things for $20 which went to his foundation (and he was kind enough to actually talk to you), but there were plenty of guys signing for $50+ and having fans "herded through" so fast that you barely even got a chance to look at some of these "boyhood hero's." Like I said - I'm sure I'm being petty - these guys can't just sit there and sign over and over and spend 10 minutes talking to each and every person, but I saw a couple guys refuse to sign autographs for a couple little kids who happened upon them when not many other people were around - there were some who didn't even want a picture taken unless there was a "donation." All in all it was a great experience and one I won't soon forget!

I don't see his name on the list of attendees confirmed - was just wondering if anyone had heard if he was coming or not?

If that's the case, I apologize for my statement - I had heard on numerous occasions that Manny was oblivious to the ARod thing - however I heard those things all second hand and should have said that in my comment. Sorry

As far as what Manny's production would be like if he were traded... I have no reason whatsoever to think his production would go down - in fact, if I had to guess I would say there's a better likelihood that it would go up for 2 reasons: 1. A happy Manny is a very productive Manny - look how he's doing in Boston right now and he's NOT very happy. 2. Manny took awhile to get "going" offensively this year and really seems to be hitting his stride now. Manny may be alot of things - both positive and negative, but the one thing I DO believe is that he is one of the top 5 offensive threats in MLB - he simply has a physical talent to hit a baseball.