Cubzfan64

Add Carlos Zambrano on day 3 and you get an even lower level of hell!!!

Over the last year or so I've seen many discussions that eventually bring up the pros and cons of OBP. I'll try to make this simple, but I've felt for quite some time that a single player with a decent OBP can't make all that significant of an impact on a team overall and this is what I've come up with: The difference between a leadoff hitter having an OBP of 0.350 vs. 0.300 comes out to ~ 1 more time on base every 5 games (assuming 650 plate appearances per season). Although that's quite a difference in OBP, I honestly don't feel like that comes out to such a significant advantage considering the number of times a player scores when they get on base anyways. Now, take into consideration the difference between a TEAM OBP of 0.320 and 0.350. The higher OBP team will get an additional 1 guy on base every single game. I believe this is indeed a fairly significant advantage for the higher OBP team. The crux of my thoughts is that as Cub fans it seems foolish to argue and nit pick over adding a leadoff hitter (or any SINGLE hitter for that matter) with a much better OBP than what we currently have. Our focus should be on the TEAM improving their overall OBP - granted, this means adding any guy with a better OBP will improve the team, but not nearly as dramatically as it would if the team as a whole would focus on improving their ability to get on base. In effect, it shows how silly it is for the Cubs as a team to not pay much attention to their team OBP, while at the same time, it shows us that just adding one better OBP guy won't make this a contending team. Any thoughts? Are my assumptions and conclusions sensible?

I wondered this myself, but Eric seemed to do well last year even while his brother was faltering. Eric has the personality to handle the situation. While Corey is not very expressive, Eric is outgoing and known as a clubhouse leader. I actually think this ordel will make Eric stronger mentaly and I have little doubt that he will be the more successful pro among the Patterson brothers. I thought that Eric has commented about this before and he realizes that it's a business and these things happen. I hope that's true - too many sports figures (in my opinion) do alot of complaining about mistreatment by management and lack of loyalty and respect (especially when arbitration cases and free agency come up), but as you stated above, baseball IS a business nowadays and the players do what's best for them while ownership does what's best for it. That would be a mature way to look at it by Eric and hopefully there won't be any grudges held against the organization as he progresses throughout the system.

Agreed - I know it's said often in sports, but in my opinion, this is truly one of those times where I'm afraid it's best for both the Cubs and Corey to part company. I wish him the best wherever he goes, but I hope he never comes back to haunt us. I can't help wondering how last year's situation with Corey will affect his brother Eric who is in the Cubs system.

Any deal the Cubs might make to get Tejada (and I don't think I would make the deal if it takes Prior personally) HAS to include the ability for the Cubs to lock up Tejada for a minimum of 3 years and preferably 4. If we trade talent for talent, we better get more than one year of it back. As far as anyone in our minor league system, there should be NO untouchables as far as I'm concerned. Any trade proposal that improves the ballclub is worth a look to me - especially if it involves getting back proven talent for unproven talent. It would be different if the Cubs had a history in the last 5-10 years of evaluating their own minor league talent effectively, but I've seen little to no proof of that at all. Basically I don't believe ANY hype the Cubs organization generates concerning any of their minor league prospects.

Although Corey's name has come up in the Boston media, it hasn't been anywhere near the top of their list - They have a GAPING hole in CF and at leadoff right now in losing Damon and I don't think they're in any position to take on a "project" like Corey. Reed's name in Seattle is coming up ALOT in talks from what I hear. Keep in mind too that they just got rid of a SS who they think may not have had the ability to "handle" the fans and media of Boston - everyone knows Corey was booed badly last year in Chicago and it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to think that they didn't affect him - he would get EATEN ALIVE in Boston if he didn't get off to a good start. As far as Walker goes - I don't see where he would fit with Boston? They just traded for a 2B and if the Tejada deal goes nowhere, they'll likely either trade for Lugo or sign someone like Gonzalez for SS or potentially even go with Cora. I just don't see the Cubs as a good trading partner right now with Boston unless it would be in some 3+ team trade.

For what it's worth, there's been some talk that Manny may not have all that much of a problem with Boston - it could very well be that his wife has been orchestrating this in an effort to move the family to somewhere else.

Tejada may be a talented player, but this looks like a case of a team drastically overvaluing the value of one of the players. I also doubt Tejada is going anywhere.

Kind like one "Mr. Norris?" :-)

After signing another free swinging SO guy like Jones to play RF, the last thing this team needs to do is sign on yet ANOTHER lack of discipline hitter who on top of all that isn't even a very good fielder. Have we learned nothing at all about the need to balance an offensive lineup and not put 6-7 guys out there who swing exactly the same way every at bat?

I wonder if the O's would bite on a Wood + Hill deal if the Cubs could convince Wood to accept it?

And harder still to believe that no one bit. Different market, a lot less cash out there. And keep in mind as well that a couple years ago would have meant being saddled with a $20mil/year contract for 3+ years - that's a long commitment. In today's market, alot of teams would be willing to do it for 1 year.

Ultimately it almost always comes down to pitching being the key to winning a WS. It's possible the Cubs have inside knowledge that leads them to believe Prior's arm issues are more serious than anyone here knows, but if that isn't the case it would be a serious mistake to include either Prior or Zambrano in a deal if we don't get a major arm in return. That said, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I really think personally that the Cubs should have taken advantage of Lee's amazing season last year and tried to package him to the the Red Sox or some other team in a lopsided deal for the Cubs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Cubs NEED to start selling high and buying low if they really want to build something!

As someone else said, Boston is in no position to trade Manny without either 1) getting at least someone capable of providing close to his kind of offensive production, or 2) getting a package that includes an ace pitcher and probably one or two #1 prospects. If the Cubs want Manny, they'll have to pony up Lee (Boston needs a 1B), Zambrano or Prior in a package with Pie at the least. No way does Boston trade quality for quantity imho. After having been a WS team in 2004 and a contender in 2005, the fan base would go balistic if they threw in the towel and decided to rebuild now - it just won't happen in Boston - trust me. As messy as things look with the Cubs, how would you like to be a Red Sox fan right now (not considering the WS championship in 2004) - here you are about 3 months from the opening of spring training and you have nobody to play CF, nobody to play SS, you don't know if you have a closer, you're uncertain if Beckett may have shoulder problems, you don't know if Schilling will ever be the same, your star LF has demanded a trade, your #2 pitcher from last year (Wells) has demanded a trade, you moved your #1 non-pitching prospect who was supposed to take over SS and in effect got someone elses #1 non-pitching prospect who happens to be a 3B which is where a guy you got in an earlier deal as a throw in because of his huge salary is supposed to play (Lowell), and you lost an excellent GM and replaced him with 2 GM's in name who likely are just pawns to a businessman who thinks he's a GM (Luchino). I'm not happy with the Cubs offseason so far, but Boston fans are in an uproar today for the most part! They see absolutely no rhyme or reason to the deals they've made so far.

All this may be interesting, but all indications in Boston are that they're going to try to trade for either Jeremy Reed from Seattle or Coco Crisp to fill the CF spot - Corey's name has never been mentioned in the media here but that doesn't mean it isn't happening behind the scenes. As far as SS goes, Alex Gonzalez (not the ex-Cub) is supposedly on their radar as well. I'd love to see us find a way to get Manny, but realistically I don't see the Red Sox as being good trade partners on this one.

Personally I don't think the Cub organization likes the way Walker "tells it like it is" to the media. I'm sure they'll talk about how it's his defensive weaknesses and other gobbledygook, but when it comes down to it, I just think they have a problem with him personality-wise. Maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like that whenever you read between the lines.

I don't mean to pick here but what evidence do you have that would lead you to believe it could even work out REALLy well? Pass the peace pipe 'cause I need a hit of that! Honestly? Absolutely nothing. Maybe its the move from the Dome to Wrigley. Maybe its the excitement of playing on a new team. Maybe its the expertise hitting intstruction he'll get from Neifi. Maybe its the fact he should see some good pitches. Moreover, its just a hunch. Nothing more nothing less. A hunch or a wish? :-) I believe Jones will be an upgrade offensively from Burnitz, but I'm pretty confident it's a wish and not based on anything else unfortunately.

I was talking offense. C - Barrett >>>>Miller 1B - Lee >>>>>>>>> Karros/Choi/Simon 2B - Walker > Grudz Grudz had a career year in 2003, and Walker has a comparable OBP and a lot more power) SS - Cedeno > KGon 3B - ARam >>> Bellhorn/Harris/2003 ARam LF - Murton < Alou (though Alou had an average year at best) CF - Pierre = Lofton RF - Jones << Sosa You remember the KGon-Miller black hole? Ugh. No more of that. We don't know what the 2006 bench will look like, and there are good bench bats out there to be taken. What makes the two of you think that Cedeno will be starting at SS AND Walker will still be here (and starting at 2B). I'd say the MI will be Perez/Walker or Cedeno/Perez. I firmly believe Todd Walker will be gone and Perez will play the full season as our SS or 2B.

While I absolutely agree that 3 years was too long, I'm sure it was the only way the deal could get done. That said, I think Jones is an upgrade over 2005 (I guess that's sort of an indication of how bad 2005 was). Jones is an upgrade defensively and it's a wash offensively in my mind - the other difference is that Jones has a higher ceiling. I don't think it's unrealistic to think that Jones could hit 30-35 HR's and drive in 80-100 runs. Yes he's going to strike out alot - ALOT, but how is that any different than what we saw of Sammy Sosa the last couple years? I'm trying desperately to see the positives in this move now that it's done, and I hope that perhaps with some other sluggers like Lee and Ramirez around him, that maybe Jones will cut down on his strikouts cause I think if he can make more consistent contact he'll be able to hit .270 and above.

Not only would Dusty play him at the first sign of Murton going into a slump, but there's no way we sign Jones for $5.3 mil per year to platoon him. As an aside, I'm guessing we'll soon find out that Neifi is our starting 2B for 2006 as well. I just don't think the organization likes Walker and we signed Neifi to WAY too high of a contract for him to be a guy off the bench.

Johnny fits the entire persona of the "Idiot" Red Sox of 2004. He's truly not the brightest bulb in the pack to say the least. He does think very highly of himself, but let's face it, when you take an egotistical far less than brilliant athlete and make him a "rock staresque" icon, it's hard to blame him. The fact of the matter is he said to a local sportsguy last night that when he came to the Red Sox, his primary goal for his career in Boston was to score as many runs as he could - he didn't focus on average, power, OBP or anything else, he just focused on scoring runs. I'd say his numbers indicate he did an excellent job at that. He'll do fine in New York for a couple years, but I'll bet anything that the way he plays the game (all out) will catch up with him soon and he'll start breaking down physically. Personally I don't think he ever had much of an intention of resigning with the Red Sox, and I'm sure Boras was able to manipulate Damon like putty. As far as what Boston will do for CF, I hear it's going to be Reed as well if they can swing a trade.

I should almost start a separate thread on this, but for those of you who study baseball much more closely I have a question: In general, is it easier for an AL hitter to come to the NL or a NL hitter to go to the AL? I'm also curious as to how J Jones is categorized as far as his ability to hit fastballs/breaking balls, etc.... Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on these things.

Signing Jones for RF isn't the worst thing in the world, what kills me is that it's for 3 years which imho is simply a stupid thing. As a Cub fan all I can do now is suck it up and hope beyond all hope that Jones finds some way to outproduce Burnitz of 2005 at the very least and if nothing else builds up some trade value so we don't have to see him for all 3 years. I do have one prediction though that I hope does not come true - JJ will lead the NL in SO's and runners left in scoring position. For those of you who think keeping Walker will somewhat temper this signing, I'll bet anything Todd is gone before the season starts - for whatever reason I just think he's worn out his welcome with the organization and Hendry will find some way to move him for another spare part. Corey is likely gone as well, but I doubt we'll get anything of value for either one of them. I'm really not all that excited about the 2006 Cubs, but I'm sure Hendry thinks he's addressed all the club needs and has put together a sure division champion. :-(

There's a chance of anything I suppose, but I have a strong suspicion that a guy who swings for the fence in every AB who strikes out as much as Jones does will only swing that much harder and wilder when he "thinks" Wrigley will produce 50 HR's for him. Doesn't matter what ballpark he's in - when he swings and misses, the only place the ball ends up is the catcher's glove.

I just read where Reggie Sanders may not become a Dodger afterall. I guess it goes to show how much I hate the idea of Jones being our RF for the next 3 years when I say I'd grab Sanders in a heartbeat at this point!! I take that back - I don't want Sanders either, I'm just thoroughly disgusted with our options!!