jjgman21

I think the idea that the O's won't trade Tejada within the division is overblown. what would that mean, that they finish 33 games out of first instead of 28? big deal. while Manny for Miggy has been nixed, I don't think the idea of Miggy to the RedSox has lost all its legs. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the following: Angels get Manny and a few million RedSox get Tejada and an Angels prosect (or maybe no money to the Angels and take on Garret Anderson) O's get one player/prospect from RedSox and 2-3 players/prospects from Anaheim it seems to please everyone. Angels get the extra stick and keep the defense at short, and a little salary relief. RedSox get their shortstop, get rid of their headache and a prospect back or left field fill back. O's get rid of their headache and restock, with better prospects than the Cubs could muster I might add. I am hoping this is another occassion where circumstances beyond Hendry's control force him to make the right decision when he was doing everything he can to make the wrong decision. just keep Walker, get Bradley for right with spare part pitching, and keep the bargaining chips and salary room for later on in the year to cover injuries/bad performance/Milton meltdown.

was the magical moment when Beltran's face smashed into Cameron's face? I mean a tough, non injury prone player wouldn't have missed any time because of that, right? or is it that non injury prone players wouldn't have been going all out for that ball like Beltran was? and for Prior, did it happen when the line drive went off his elbow, or when Giles ran into him? (incidentally, I think he's injury prone too, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to let him ride it out and hope for the best) when exactly is the moment when a player goes from a guy who has had a couple injuries, to an injury prone player? the RedSox once decided Clemens was injury prone. 5 Cy Youngs later, you think they don't regret letting him walk?

in fact, Nomar did have a history of groin pulls. what happened to last year is Bradley blew out his knee similar to the way Patterson did. a ligit injury as a result of playing hard. what happened to Nomar would not have happened to a healthy, non-injury prone body. and that is what this all comes down to. there doesn't seem to be certain body parts injured over and over, like with Nomar and JD Drew. you didn't answer my questions. aren't you disappointed the Card didn't scare away from Edmonds injury history? ready to give up on Prior? I mean he's injury prone, so we should get what we can for him now, right? Aram too, right? exactly how much time does a guy have to miss before he is officially injury prone? Beltran missed two months in 2000, missed a month in 2003, and now a chunk of 2005. is he now injury prone whereas before the all-star break he was not injury prone? should we refuse him based on injury if he were available for a song like Bradley probably will be?

Maybe a couple of years prior, but I think he proved that to be a myth in '05. Home: 331/386/527/913 Away: 330/384/500/884 Now show the three year averages... You said that no one was close to Tejada anymore, and there were several guys that were very close, and Young was better. actually, Peralta was better too, playing in a pitchers park. also, Tejada's road spits were pretty pedestrian last year too. but I know what Tim is saying. SS production is a premium and Young and Peralta aren't available. even so, I think we could get comparable production without trading the farm like it will take to get Tejada.

The part you are refusing to believe here is that it absolutely in no way matters how the injuries take place. Period. The fact that neither can stay healthy means they are both injury risks. And yes Nomar's groin was torn away while Bradley's stayed in tact last year. What was the end result? Bradley played in 13 more games than Nomar in 2005. Color me impressed. The part you are refusing to believe here is that you saying it with conviction makes it no more true. you seriously don't understand the difference between chronic injuries and random injuries? here's a hint, one is a good indicator of future injury, the other not so much. the record books are full of guys who were injured alot early on and went on to play several years. here's an example. there's a player that was on the DL for half of 1989, half of 1991, a month of 1993, twice in 96 (total of 2 months), 15 games in 1997, 100 games in 1998. he's spent 15 days on the DL since. now don't you wish the Cardinals considered there centerfielder too injury prone to acquired him in 2000? edit: oh yeah, Mark Prior. willing to keep gambling on that guy?

Nomar's played 142 games the last 2 years. Bradley has played 216. Nomar is a sidearming SS, and Bradley is a well above average defensive CF. I think Bradley would make a much easier transition there than Nomar. Bradley doesn't have chronically injured wrists and never had his groin muscle rip off the bone trying to get out of the batter's box, nor does he get the multi annual pulls that always kept Nomar out. saying both are a similar injury risk is not an accurate assessment.

And in all nine threads you've complained about there being too many threads. Why not just let the mods decide how to do it? rrrrrraaarrrrrr. three. all the threads started overlapping, and this one was on it's way. usually the mods do something about that. I've never seen nine threads on one before. and I only bring it up because I have been chastised by the mods in the past for starting threads related to topics that already have threads, and it seems to me a policy that makes sense.

nice try back2backjax, but this just became the ninth thread of general discussion regarding Tejada.

Why so high on Milton? Guy has never played a complete season and only played over 100 game twice in his many years. Getting him would be a prototypical cubs pickup of getting some guy who is going to blow a ligament 2 weeks into the season. because last night I looked into his injury history and came to the conclusion that he's no more injury prone than the next player. May 2-June 4, 2002 - ball ricocheted off the outfield wall when trying to make a catch, breaking a his orbital bone August 12-August 30, 2002 - appendicitis April 23-May 8, 2003 - high ankle sprain diving for a ball. probably could have played through it if given a few days off, but put on the DL because it was April. August 10-October 3, 2003 - tweaked back on a swing May 30-July 15 - torn ligament in his finger on a swing August 10, 2005-now - blew out knee similar to the way Patterson did. my only real concern is he injured himself twice on swings. he's had some injuries, most of them flukes, but he's no JD Drew in the injury department. plus, these are his games played over his career before 2002, when the fluke injuries began 1997 - 59 (short season) 1998 - 142 (low and high A) 1999 - 86 (AA) 2000 - 120 (AAA and splitting time in Majors) 2001 - 152 (AAA and Majors)

I know everyone would like to see something guaranteed solid to fill that question mark, but the quesion has to be asked: does that lineup allow the Corey Patterson Experiment to continue on the northside of Chicago? Would Cliff Floyd playing RF be enough to allow Neifi to start at SS? Same question. than my mind is made up. I want Bradley more than anyone, even Tejada, but it has to get done without trading Walker.

I know everyone would like to see something guaranteed solid to fill that question mark, but the quesion has to be asked: does that lineup allow the Corey Patterson Experiment to continue on the northside of Chicago?

lot of pining for Mora these days. anyone else think this guy may take a bit of a dive? he struggled to get to the majors, was mediocre for his first few years, had two fantastic years, then took a quick 160 point dive in OPS over one year, and was injured all along the way. I like him, but the guy doesn't exactly have a long track record upon which to base future success and will be 34 next year. I get a feeling his days in the sun may be over sooner than later.

If they played the same position on the field, I'd agree. To get production like his out of SS allows a lot of flexibility elsewhere on the field. Putting things differently, Tejada is going to be a sure-fire HOF player at his current pace as a SS. ARam is not nearly as clear-cut at 3B. actaully, if not for that stupid injury during a brawl and his subsequent long recovery, Aram may very well be on a clear cut HOF pace. if he had his average numbers from 2001, 2003-2005 in 2002, he'd have five straight years of 60+ extra base hits, and 5 years of 92+ RBI (well over 500 total), all before the year he turned 28. those are hall of fame numbers for a third baseman. very comparable to Mike Schmidt, without the defensive range and arm of course.

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy. Is he better when you factor durability into the equation? interesting question, but if you are talking durability, you have to question how long before Tejada starts to break down considering he insists on playing winter ball. he takes maybe a month and a half off a year. that's bound to catch up with a player after 10 years.

I don't know. It's different because it's the NL, but I think the Cubs lineup with Tejada added would be pretty darn potent CF Pierre - scratch or slight advantage Angels 2B Walker - advantage Cubs 1B Lee - probably advantage Angels, unless Lee repeats 3B Ramirez - advantage Ramirez...Manny SS Tejada - clearly advantage Cubs LF Murton - clearly advantage Cubs C Barrett - clearly advantage Cubs RF ? - probably advantage Cubs, no matter who they get for RF P - closer to a scratch than you might thing. it is after all Jose Molina, not Bengie (splitting time with a rookie) the Angels big bobbers at 3 and 4 would probably be better, but overall, 1-8, the Cubs would be better offensively. further, I don't know about defense either. that Cubs team is not good defensively, and the only clear advantage is SS, 3B and Vlad's arm. Anderson is pedestrian in left, Figgins never played OF until he reached the majors and his range numbers stink, Vlad's range has diminished considerably, Kennedy's range stinks. that's a great team, but I don't think they would come close the the best lineup in baseball on both offense and defense.

yeah, never mind that Mora is 5 years older, more expensive, as injury prone as a player gets, had a worse OPS than Gibbons, and is more expensive. but hey, he had two fabulous years out of nowhere after taking 8 years in the minors to reach the big leagues. he's bound to get back to the .900 OPS of 2003 and 2004, now isn't he. don't get me wrong, I like Mora as a player, but don't be so dismissive. he will never return to the form he showed in 2003-2004.

Tejada for Mulder & Wainwright and move Eck over to 2nd. Why would the Cards want to trade Mulder? Sure he has one year remaining on his contract, but the strength of their rotation hinges on a Carpenter/Mulder repeat, especially if Marquis is used in a trade and/or Morris signs elsewhere. Additionally, your offense is already ridiculous. Why must you insist on trying to make fools of us all with Tejeda? :wink: I doubt we are going to lock Mulder up long term. Mulder is overrated anyway. We have a young pitcher named Reyes who will fill in if we trade him. I'd do the deal. Carpenter a year after throwing 75 more innings than he ever threw Suppan Marquis Rookie with a history of arm troubles ???? and a completely depleted bullpen. me likey

...if you get a full season out of ARam pretty much an unnecesary quip, but I'll play as if the Cardinals thirdbaseman is the picture of health. the best thing that could have happened to his knees is his shoulder injury. Aram gets the nagging pulls that don't go away, but Rolen has two chronic knees and now a shoulder that may never be the same.

this put a smile on my face. talk of Dimitri Young got me looking at his baseballreference page. I didn't remember him coming up with the Cards, and I love the fact that they gave him up for one year of Jeff Brantley pouring gasoline on fires. Young went on to four consecutive years of .832 OPS for the reds. a nice little kicker to add to Steve Carlton when Card fans give us crap about Brock-Brogglio.

and the number of Tejada threads goes to 8. Mods, do something about this. it's impossible to remember which thread is about what.

It's entirely un-Cubs fan-like, but for some reason I'm very optimistic that we will land Tejada in another typical Hendry fleecing. Mora too please, thanks. Can he play RF? I believe he has played LF before so I can assume he could play right. I can't imagine Hendry being able to land both. If he did (without selling the farm) I might just have to worship him. lot's of requests for Mora, but how about looking into the Orioles actual right fielder? no, not that one, what about Jay Gibbons? he's not ideal right field production, but you don't need ideal right field production with Tejada at short. I think he's one year from FA, so not a long term gamble and someone else the O's might want to see who they can sell off. not the obp that everyone likes, but still decent production for what he will cost.

no doubt Angelos has the money. the question is will he spend it. he's gone out on limbs before. in the 90's the O's had the highest payroll for a couple years. but, he just lost a big chunk of his market. I don't think Angelos would want to take on that salary unless he stood a chance of winning. Manny is definitely worth the money he's paid, but Tejada's probably the better value and the addition of Manny would also come with the subtraction of Tejada. even with Cox I don't think the O's pitching staff is going anywhere . they don't stand a chance of competing in that division anyway before Manny's contract expires. the better option would probably be to rebuild.

It's cool. It was hard to bring this particular topic up within a thread since one of the threads is already 20someodd pages long and that it wouldn't be a perfect fit in any of the other ones. I've never been big on that rule myself actually, but seven is a little much. mods, how about three threads tejada trade scenerio speculation and debate tejada news reports and related speculation tejada's fit with the cubs and related debate.

no offense. interesting subject. but did we really need another thread on Tejada? this makes it seven I think.

They are not any closer to competing in that div. than the Fish are. Hill, Williams, Cedeno and a Single A prospect for Miggy and a bit of cash, please. There will plenty of teams that would be willing to offer more. Everyone needs starting pitching. Not everyone needs a shortstop. Which teams will offer more? Mets: Reyes,Benson,Diaz Blue Jays: Batista,Lilly,Hudson,A.Hill Angels: Lackey,Cabrera,Shields Diamindbacks: Vazquez,Aquino,Tracy Padres: Green,Eaton,Roberts Red Sox: Manny,Arroyo Mets easily could get involved, don't know if they'd trade Reyes though, and that'd probably be a dealbreaker for the Os. Pad's won't give that package up, plus they're set with Khalil Greene, who's only going to get better. O's don't want to trade within division, so no Red Sox or Blue Jays. We can beat the DBacks package easily if we wanted. We could also beat the Angels, but not as easily as AZs package. I would guess that would have to depend on how the O's feel about those guys vs our guys... my opinion of these offers Mets - I don't know if that is a better deal than the Cubs, and I wouldn't do it if I were the O's. Reyes is still a question mark in both injury and production and Benson sucks Blue Jays - would the Jays be able to take on Tejeda's contract? and what use would they have for two crappy pitchers like Batista and Lilly? and what use would they have for Hudson? Angels - an interesting proposal, but I don't know if the Angels would do that. they're already lost Byrd and will lose Washburn. that leaves Colon and Santana, and noone to replace their best setup man. come to think of it, no chance the Angels do that trade. maybe Cabrerra and some prospects? D-Backs - if I am not mistaken, someone said that Baltimore is one of the places Vazquez refuses to be traded to and they won't give up Tracy. to cheap for the production to give up. Padres - Roberts sucks, so the trade is Eaton and Greene. Eaton is average at best, so the trade is Greene. O's won't do it. ReSox - Arroyo sucks, and Angelo probably won't take on Manny's contract. I don't doubt that other teams can outbid some of the packages that the Cubs could offer, but the above five are not good examples.