jjgman21

As other have pointed out, you have: Z Prior Marshall Marmol Guzman Hill Rusch Williams Ryu as candidates for starting games the rest of the season. Keeping Maddux means you have one less spot for Guzman and Hill to get acclimated to ML play. Going down to Iowa will accomplish nothing for Hill; he needs to be here. Guzman is getting back to where he needs to be; by September he should be here starting. Ryu can piggyback Marshall or Marmol to keep their innings down, and Williams and Rusch can go long for Z to keep his innings and pitch counts down. And that list doesn't include any other pitchers that might be added to the 40 man once another player is dealt. Bottom line is that Hill and Guzman need to be here, and need to be in a rotation the rest of the way. Maddux being here makes that more difficult. Z has a legit shot at the Cy Young, so I doubt they'll skip him much, and they can't skip Prior-they need him to work the rest of the season in preparation for 2007. that's a good idea to keep the innings of the youngsters down while getting them some experience. problem is it is hypothetical, and we are trying to forecast what could/should happen in reality, and what you suggest wouldn't happen in reality considering who our manager is.

lack of Leo Mazzone. I don't think he was never any good before last year.

how do we figure out what type he would be and what each type fetches? even if a type B they get a sandwich pick, no?

problem is, from all indications, noone is offering such a prospect. I think you are confusing the two. I'm pretty sure the years don't matter. this is Williams third option year, so once he's brought up, he must stick. I could be wrong, but I'm almost positive that's how it works. attitude problem or not, I've been sick of waiting for ours for quite some time now and would just as soon trade him.

count me in the camp that really likes him, but wouldn't mind using him to improve the team. the question becomes what is the best way to improve the team vis a vis Todd Walker. what type of FA would he be? if he'd bring back a high draft pick or two, would that be a better option than what he is likely to bring in a trade (probably a mid-tier prospect). if packaged, he could probably bring something a little better, but taken alone, it seems to me the better option is to offer arbitration with either the possibility of bringing him back or getting the picks.

you forgot about the Horn.

if the Rays really want to dump these guys, I see the A's or RedSox getting really fat. is there any other GMs in baseball that wouldn't consider the character issues too big a risk? there is Williams, but the only reason he picked up Jenks is because he was free. don't know if he'd do it if it meant giving up players.

neither Wells nor Gallagher are on the 40-man. I don't think they could be called up. if I am not mistaken, both Marmol and Marshall are already well beyond their biggest career workload. with Guzman's injury history, I don't think it a good idea to extend him much further as he is well above any workload he has had in recent years. maybe 4-5 starts and I would shut him down (around 140-150 IP). same goes for Ryu. with Hills full workload last year, he's the only one who I wouldn't have a problem with having a slot the rest of the year without over work concerns. again, I only advocate keeping him if trading him does not result in getting something decent back. if you get something decent back, then go with Rusch to save these guys arms. I do not know the status of Williams these days. is he pitching? he is a possability to fill that role, but then you use up his last option and have to 25 man him next year. it is difficult to abuse a staff once rosters expand, if your manager isn't a pitcher abusing bafoon. Dusty wants to win every game. if that means extending Marshall or Marmol to twice his workload of last year, that's exactly what he will do. TT is suggesting that since you're trading Maddux (who is on the 40-man) for someone who isn't on the 40-man, you'd be able to add Wells or Gallagher to the 40-man roster in time for September call-ups. Jerome Williams is indeed pitching and has returned to the Iowa rotation with better results than earlier in the season. Williams has already used his option when he was demoted to the minors, but I thought I read somewhere he might still have one (Craig??). I see your point re: Maddux openning up a roster spot, but that means the only return is a low level prospect that doesn't need to be on the 40 man. I hope others see my point re: pitcher abuse. doesn't Williams demotion earlier this year mean he can remain in the minors indefinitely until the next time he is called up, then he has to stick? also, which Guzman are you referring trading if LA's Guzman comes in a Maddux trade?

neither Wells nor Gallagher are on the 40-man. I don't think they could be called up. if I am not mistaken, both Marmol and Marshall are already well beyond their biggest career workload. with Guzman's injury history, I don't think it a good idea to extend him much further as he is well above any workload he has had in recent years. maybe 4-5 starts and I would shut him down (around 140-150 IP). same goes for Ryu. with Hills full workload last year, he's the only one who I wouldn't have a problem with having a slot the rest of the year without over work concerns. again, I only advocate keeping him if trading him does not result in getting something decent back. if you get something decent back, then go with Rusch to save these guys arms. I do not know the status of Williams these days. is he pitching? he is a possability to fill that role, but then you use up his last option and have to 25 man him next year. it is difficult to abuse a staff once rosters expand, if your manager isn't a pitcher abusing bafoon. Dusty wants to win every game. if that means extending Marshall or Marmol to twice his workload of last year, that's exactly what he will do.

I don't disagree at all, but what other arms were there in Houston besides Oswalt? All I can think of is Elarton. Wade Miller. Hampton, Lima, Elarton, Holt. everyone blames Colorado on Darrel Kile's downfall. might have had something to do with his 40 inning increased workload in Dierker's first year. also, I said Oswalt survived him, but maybe just barely. Dierker abused him heavily in '02, then he missed 10 starts in '03.

I think that is a silly way of looking at it. has there ever been any evidence that Rothschild has a negative impact? neither are really the type of thing that can be measured by tangible evidence to the exclusion of other factors. during games when neither was pitching, the camera often showed Maddux and Marshall sitting next to each other and obviously talking about pitching. although I don't think Maddux mentors young pitchers unless they seek it. I think people may be arguing different points here. IMO, you shouldn't keep Maddux if you can get something decent, but I think alot of the people advocating keeping him are doing so because of the note earlier in the thread that says suitors are offering only a mid-tier prospect and demanding the Cubs pay all his remaining salary...aka they want to give the Cubs nothing. if it's a choice between nothing and sentamentality + not over extending the younger pitchers, I go with the later.

if paying all the salary and not getting a decent prosect in return, I think they should keep him. one reason is that, if I'm not mistaken, Marshall, Hill, Guzman are all either well over or fast approaching their career high in IP. only Hill has pitched the equivalent of a major league workload in his career before. I'd like to see those guys get the starts too, but I don't want any of them stretched farther than they should be. there is some sentimentality to it too, but I don't think you need much of a reason to have a HOF'er end his career with the Cubs if it brings no other benefit, either salary wise or talent wise.

I read a Gehrig biography "Luckiest Man" by Jonathan Eig. In the book there is something regarding where Gehrig could have ended up in the all time record books. I realize that these statistics are rough estimates but they show the heights Gehrig could have reached had he not been struck down with ALS. This goes for Ted Williams as well since he missed 3 full years in his prime due to WWII and missed almost 2 full years due to the Korean War. To add to the other stats, Gehrig has a career line of .340/.442/.632/1.074 which is good enough for 12th/4th/3rd/3rd all time. Unbelievable player. I'll give my list in a bit. "Today, I consider myself, the luckiest man on the face of the earth." Oh, and it's a very good book for anyone interested. like I said earlier in the thread, he missed two years because he was going to Columbia. add in those years too, and he has RBI and walk numbers that would probably never be touched and maybe beyond Aaron in HRs.

Sig'd it was borrowed, but thanks.

I was in and out during the game today. just watching it on Tivo now. holy bad umpiring. amazing what Maddux did because he didn't get a corner call all day. Same certainly can't be said for Reyes, who was bailed out of some tough situations with charity strikes. another one for the bad luck thread...what other team has two guys beaned on consecutive days, and neither gets to take their base? the balk. c'mon Ed. that's three terrible non calls in two days, all of them on you.

your local sports team is inferior to the squad that plays its home games near where I live. so inferior, their integrity and masculinity should be questioned openly and vociferously. thought you might be going Onion on us there. just following up.

The money would make things pretty tight. Abreu and Lieber would tie up $22.5 million of next year's budget, and by my count we've got about $30 million coming off of the books at the end of this year, and we've got both Z and Prior going to arbitration and both will likely get pretty good contracts. it is true this would take up a good chunk of what comes off the books, but Prior will not get too good of a bump after his past two years and Hendry spent far less than anyone expected this year. if what we all hope happens, losing Dusty saves a good chunk too. I think there'd still be plenty of money to go get a big arm.

anyone else get the feeling they would be heckled less by Card fans attending a game at Busch than watching a game on Fox?

I've been a critic of getting Abreu, alot of that has been based on the notion that the 2008 option belonged to Abreu. Cubs should jump on this. I'd do this trade, and I'd keep Leiber until I saw evidence that Prior would make 30+ starts.

I enjoyed his mild spike of the ball in Dunn's direction afterwards. not really even a spike, just kind of dropped the ball at Dunn's face after he got up a lot quicker than Dunn did. simply an awesome way to handle the situation. like jogging down to first looking at the pitcher with a smile on your face after getting hit intentionally (what Aram should have done). note to AJ - - that is when colliding with the catcher is appropriate. you know, when the catcher actually has the ball or the ball is somewhere near the plate.

so what you are saying is that you haven't gathered all the evidence possible, and you haven't gathered as much as I have gathered, but you know for sure. you're so openminded about it. it's so obvious you have considered my point of view. now go over to a wall, put your right shoulder against it, imagine a ball is flying to the otherside of the wall, and see if you would be able to reach it. I admire your attempt to be a stand up guy and not make excuses. doesn't change this one simple fact...physically impossible. Oh for crying out loud, have you ever once stopped to consider that you may not be right all of the damn time? That was not an obvious fan interference call. I've seen the replay from different angles dozens of times, and it looks pretty clear to me that if nobody touched it, the ball would have hit right on top of the wall. Not in the stands, not on the field. Must everything be a pissing match? get off your damn high horse. when is the last time anyone stopped to consider that they may not be right all the damn time. did you ever stop and consider that you may be wrong on this? alot of people have been coming at me with this hypocritical nonsense lately. where's your most recent mia culpa? Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that one of the two people has a character flaw. not sure if this is directed at me or Pedro. maybe I wasn't quick enough with my thank you.

thanks for the defense TT.

so what you are saying is that you haven't gathered all the evidence possible, and you haven't gathered as much as I have gathered, but you know for sure. you're so openminded about it. it's so obvious you have considered my point of view. now go over to a wall, put your right shoulder against it, imagine a ball is flying to the otherside of the wall, and see if you would be able to reach it. I admire your attempt to be a stand up guy and not make excuses. doesn't change this one simple fact...physically impossible. Oh for crying out loud, have you ever once stopped to consider that you may not be right all of the damn time? That was not an obvious fan interference call. I've seen the replay from different angles dozens of times, and it looks pretty clear to me that if nobody touched it, the ball would have hit right on top of the wall. Not in the stands, not on the field. Must everything be a pissing match? Thanks for the defense Pedro. sure seemed more like an attack of me than a defense of you.

so what you are saying is that you haven't gathered all the evidence possible, and you haven't gathered as much as I have gathered, but you know for sure. you're so openminded about it. it's so obvious you have considered my point of view. now go over to a wall, put your right shoulder against it, imagine a ball is flying to the otherside of the wall, and see if you would be able to reach it. I admire your attempt to be a stand up guy and not make excuses. doesn't change this one simple fact...physically impossible. Oh for crying out loud, have you ever once stopped to consider that you may not be right all of the damn time? That was not an obvious fan interference call. I've seen the replay from different angles dozens of times, and it looks pretty clear to me that if nobody touched it, the ball would have hit right on top of the wall. Not in the stands, not on the field. Must everything be a pissing match? get off your damn high horse. when is the last time anyone stopped to consider that they may not be right all the damn time. did you ever stop and consider that you may be wrong on this? alot of people have been coming at me with this hypocritical nonsense lately. where's your most recent mia culpa?

LOL, that's wrong on both counts. Cards are 0-5 vs. the Cubs and 0-3 vs. the Sox. I've seen 6 of those games live. Sheesh. someone buy this guy a ticket!