KingKongvs.Godzilla

What is the obsession with Zito? He's a homer prone, high walk, fly ball pitcher. The thing he'd give us is innings and if we want an expensive overrated lefty to do that we could trade for Eric Milton or someone. I can't even think of a pitcher I want on the FA market but if a gun is to my head I'd give it to Schmidt. Thats between the two big name guys though...no clue who else is out there. And I still refuse to quit on Prior. This seems too preliminary for me, not going to jump the gun yet.

Any scouting reports on the college lefties? I know Price decently, would like more detail I guess but everyone else is a question mark. Heres what I know: Price - Mid 90's fastball, plus slider, OK control Schmidt - Good curveball, control Everyone else is blank.

Actually I was wondering what the three top college lefties: Price, Savery, and Schmidt throw. Doolittle would be nice too. The high school guy that interests me the most is Smoker. What kind of stuff do these guys have?

I would love that. Sheets is still one of my favorite players in the game, and he's also a damn good pitcher. Unlike many of the Cubs pitchers Sheets came back last night and struck out 8 in 7 IP giving up 6 hits and 5 runs.

Prior has probably been injured since last year. I don't think he's brittle. He's been misused, of that I'm sure. At the same time Hendry and Co. have done nothing to quell the rumors that he's soft. Soft. . All the while pitching under a turd-ass manager who assumes any pitcher, especially a young pitcher coming off an injury, is still more than capable of throwing a ton of pitches a start. I still think Mark Prior is going to become something, maybe (hopefully not) after the Cubs give up on him. If they do give up on him in typical Cubs fashion it will be now, when his value is at an all time low. Still, I think if he went to a team like Minnesota or Oakland he would thrive under a team willing to take care of him and making SURE he's 100% before sending him out there. Think about it, there was talk all winter of Prior and Wood working out and blah blah blah, and weeks before ST Prior comes down with a major stomach virus. Those things can really sap a guys strength and really suck the life out of you, I have a friend recovering from one he caught all the way back in early March, he went from a kid who could clean his body weight to barely being able to do the bar. Prior has been a good pitcher for us when he HAS pitched, the exception being this year. But considering what he's gone through I'm willing to give him one or two more passes, maybe because its Mark Prior and he's still just 25. Still, after what he did for us in 2003 and after watching him try his ass off to repeat that the past couple years only to have line drives hit at him and crap, I think I'd rather not give up on him just yet.

Will they re-air the AFLAC game because I've missed it (yet again). Who were the most impressive prospects there? How did Main and Stock look? Any HS leftys out there that can go high? Any HS position players (particularly SS and CF) who are both somewhat polished and still have high upsides?

I think Chris Young is being overrated slightly this season. He's doing ALOT right this year, but his overall .278/.366/.543 line is not too impressive considering where he is. Neither is his .200 BA against LHP, or his .255 average away from a major hitters park. Still, you have to like a 21 year old CFer in AAA who improves his K:BB ratio, still walks a ton, hits for alot of power, and plays good defense. And you have to take into account that he started this year off hurt. He has a good track record in the high minors also. He's also hit .290+ in every month but April and June. I like him as much as most of the other guys on the list, and actually I would say that Pie is my least favorite player on that list. I see Pie as (at best) a Jacque Jones type guy unless he REALLY refines his game in the coming years. For some reason a 21 year who being rushed through the minors still having problem stealing bases successfully, hitting breaking balls, not walking, and so on but still getting by on his tools isn't too intriguing to me.

Well LA is probably what ruined the guys career. When he played, he produced. When he produced, he'd be benched the next day and be sent out to pinch hit 10 games later. I liked Choi ALOT when he was younger but LA really ruined the guys image around the league. I have no doubt if he stayed a Marlin he could have been a very good ML 1B.

A 19 year old relief pitcher? Does Hendry even try anymore? Well, he's got upside and an arm. Still, doesn't sound like he has a breaking ball or anything like that. Very big project.

There were a few reasons why Beltran should have been a Cub: 1. He killed the ball in Wrigley. 2. Wrigley is the perfect hitters park for him. 3. We had the cash. 4. We had the need. But hey...I'm happy we kept CP for another year and the got Pierre. With franchise guys like that who needs a guy who plays above average D, and can absolutely mash the ball at a premium position? It's shocking to me that Hendry hasn't gotten the props hes deserved the past couples years.

I don't get why Bagwell and Biggio are bad choices at all...Both are near the top of their positions on All-Time lists as it is. well it's all sticking by his guys, but nobody in their right mind would choose Bagwell and Biggio over Gerhig and Hornsby. maybe they had more grit that these two top 5 all time OPS+ players. You forget that these were playing during his tenure. And on Dierker, I like that he is a thinking man. It's really hard to find that in an old timer in baseball. He, like Maddon in TB, has tried to understand the basics of statistical analysis. He sounds like a smart guy, I'm worried a bit about his pitching philosophy. The thing is, hiring a good pitching coach who puts control first would help this pitching staff alot.

I don't think Upton is a bad character guy at all. He made the Majors 2 years after he was drafted like he promised he would, and since then they've had him sit in AAA for 2 years. I'd be pretty pissed too. Dukes I think is just a seriously misunderstood guy, and I like him alot more than I like Young. He has power, paitence, will hit for decent average, can play CF, and works hard. Young is a spoiled brat but hes a stunningly talented one so I guess I'd take him. I'd want an arm though, someone like Wade Davis or Jacob McGee.

I don't get why Bagwell and Biggio are bad choices at all...Both are near the top of their positions on All-Time lists as it is.

Because most mid-tier relievers are not consistently good year to year. It's why a bullpen is one of the easier and harder things to put together. They are easy because there are so many arms out there that can get guys out, but because of many factors their year to year performance can fluctuate. Its why you get your Chris Hammonds, Borowskis, and so on. And its why I thought signing both to multi year contracts as 30+ relievers was pretty [expletive]. Now they are some major trade chips on a team going nowhere that may need an injection of youth and a drop in price.

You know this is the first time I'll ever say I'd give up Prior for Upton and Dukes. I have no real care for Young, not a huge fan. If we got him I'd be happy, but I'd be happier if we turned right around and traded him along with Pie for some pitching.

why are they not being used? We have friggin GOLD in Eyre, Ohman, and Howry when you look at this years trade market. EVERYONE in contention needs relief help, and guys like Kearns, Aybar, and Betemit would have been amazing additions to the club for now and in the future. We still have Jacque Jones when teams like the Yankees not only need offense, they specifically need outfielders. We still have Walker when teams are still looking for bats off the bench. Hell with a team like the LAA who desperately need offense and a third baseman, why not entertain offers for Ramirez? I don't get why this orginization waits until the very last moment to do something, and then they do it completely wrong. This season is obviously lost yet absolutely nothing is being done for the near and distant future. There's still two days to do something but it just does not seem as if anything will get done.

Actually if I remember correctly, both Bosner and Liriano were in the Giants top 10 prospects, with Liriano rated as one of the top arms in their system. He came straight over and was rated top 5 in a very deep Twins system (Bosner was around 25). Liriano is crazy to watch. Most of the pitching prospects who have come along in the past few years have been guys who reared back and threw the ball. What puts him ahead of guys like Felix Hernandez and Matt Cain (yes, even Felix) is his ability to spot all three of his pitches well enough that he forces guys to chase for K's, just like Santana. I'm actually more excited about him than I was about Santana just a few years ago. He throws harder, he spots his pitches just as well, and he's getting his shot alot earlier.

If by "nobody," you mean late-90s Pedro, then yes. Or Roger Clemens over his whole career. Randy Johnson. Greg Maddux. Seaver. Grove. W. Johnson. Sandy Koufax is soo overrated. The guys peak doesn't even come close to the peak of Pedro Martinez, and his career can't touch any of the above guys. He pwned in the 60's, but so did alot of pitchers. He also had to advantage of Dodger Stadium with a raised mound and a huge strike zone. Lots of guys succeeded. He was good, very good, but hugely overrated nowadays.

While I don't hate Colvin, I do understand the value of that pick is completely wasted on him. We could have easily drafted Drabek, who scouts rated the best SS and HS pitcher in the draft. We could have still had Mr. All American WR with our 5th rounder because no one was going to look to pay that kind of money for a guy who is a better prospect in another (more dangerous) sport. I'm still wondering why we (and everyone else) passed on Walden, Lars Anderson, Giardina, and a bunch of other highly talented guys. And while we were spending big money on monster risks, why didn't we do it to some of the drafts more highly touted guys like those listed above. I dont know enough about our draft to complain, but it wouldn't have killed us to use our big money advantage on some of the draft harder signs.

I would really love to see the Cubs go after Betemit, Church, Laird/Mathis, and Kearns. If we could pull a Marlins and dump our vets to reduce payroll, and increase youth, we would be taking like 10 steps in the right direction. The Cubs need to realize that the best players on our team are just entering or not even in their prime yet. Z, Lee, ARam, Prior...those are the guys we should be building around. Adding youth and talent around them will be a quick, but longlasting fix.

Wow, Mathis and Church would go a long way in helping this team out I think. You know what, if the Braves wanna dump Giles, I'll gladly take him off their hands. He's young (28?) and can hit. Dukes for some reason is ignored. The guy is a better all around hitter than Delmon Young (he actually knows the strike zone), and is also good defensively. Why can't we pry SOMEONE worth talking about away from their team?

By this I mean guys with solid skills, tools, youth, price, but is still underrated by their orginizations. A few examples: Wilson Betemit Ryan Church Mike Napoli Elijah Dukes Carlos Quentin (maybe) Wes Bankston Kelly Shoppach (doubtful) Ryan Garko (DH type though) Gerald Laird Michael Cuddeyer There are a good amount of young guys who would beat the crap out of our team, but I'd rather they help improve it. I mean, Church has been left in AAA for like a million years when he'd probably outhit most CFers out there right now. Betemit crushes Cedeno and Neifi. Bankston is blocked everywhere in the D-Rays orginization, and Laird has never been given a shot. The trade of Kearns should be a wakeup call to Hendry to go out and look for guys like him. We have alot to trade in Jones, the relievers, and even ARam.

You realize I would kill for the Cubs to have been the recieving end of this trade. To get Keans AND Lopez in the same deal for...crap basically? This is the first and only time I can ever remember complimenting Jim Bowden, but that is a fu*kin steal. This is the kind of deal the Cubs should be doing. Going after guys like Keans, Wilson Betemit of the Braves, Ryan Church of the Nationals, and other young, significantly talented guys their orginization seems to ignore. We would be 10x better, more exciting, cheaper, more fun... This kind of trade makes me jealous of smarter franchises. The sad thing is Bowden is an idiot, a big one at that, and he's pulling deals like that. WTF is Hendry doing? Getting us guys like Neifi to play everyday, filling the roster with no power, no walk, barely glove players? I lose more and more hope everyday. The only thing I could see making me smile this season is to see Prior come back fully healthy and dominate . Knowing I'm a Cubs fan, the big guy upstairs won't let that happen. :cry:

His ERA doesn't HAVE to go down. I mean even if it does, a he's a high BB guy who will be coming to a park that doesn't help extreme flyball pitchers like himself. I can't think of anyone I'd rather want right now, but I'd rather not pay for Zito.

This board is seriously overrating Zito. Too many walks (4.27 / 9), has been homer prone, and he'd be a major flyball pitcher coming to Wrigley. A major flyball pitcher who puts alot of guys on base for free (hit 8 batters so far this, and I just showed the walk rate) coming to Wrigley field? I don't think so. Pesonally I think we should trade who we can for solid arms and younger players. A (bad) example would be offering Aramis Ramirez to the Angels or Twins for a package of ready or close to ready prospects/arms.