TruffleShuffle

yeah they're a very good three-loss team

go fighting manginos!!!

yeah after last weekend it seems like a letdown... i expect there won't be many people tailgating tomorrow morning either.

cubs rivals = nl central teams; white sox maybe the marlins too if you're really stretching.

being in the cubs organization, i'm shocked that this happened

wish we were playing someone else this week so that i could root against the eagles

that's what the bar is for.... well that and getting drunk

but the problem is that there's really no way to do it fairly, especially on a board where people are not going to put hours and hours into making their list. Like you had a Japanese catcher on your list - is anyone else going to list that player? I doubt it. Some people don't know much about Josh Gibson, so they'll leave him off or rank him in an arbitrary spot on their list. Like I said, players like Josh Gibson certainly bear mention in a thread like this, and feel free to say where you think he SHOULD be ranked, but the foreign/Negro League players are not included. Just consider it Pat Robertson's dream contest ;)

I'm surprised you put Gibson at 1. yeah i'm surprised he completely ignored the rules as well. Oh well, if he revises his list I'll use it; if not then I'll just go with the others that I've got.

That changes everything. What's the ruling? no negro leaguers or foreign players. There isn't a fair way to rank them because it's based almost completely on subjectivity. Feel free to mention them, but do put only major league players on your list. And FWIW, I'd put Josh Gibson first on a list of catchers, if we were including negro league players.

Even for OF/1B, I think you have to(and I will to some extent) factor in their defense. Obviously it's not enough to torpedo a guy, but it has to come into play. Agreed. Mike Piazza is probably the best-hitting catcher of all time, but I'm not going to be ranking him first on my list, because his defense is, and has always been, lousy. That's a big reason why I like the BP pages, because they have fielding metrics like FRAA where you can see that Piazza has been allowed 150 runs more than the average catcher because of his fielding, whereas Yogi Berra is +122. I know that it's an imperfect metric, but that plus WARP3 give at some attempt to quantify a player's defense. But really, it's just up to you when it comes to weighing a player's negative contributions on the defensive side of the ball.

great, one more and that'll be ten ;)

So noted. He was the second list down on James' list that I didn't add - Bob Boone was the one ahead of him. I added both of them. I say no to the next one though (Tim McCarver). Generally I'm trying not to go through the list of top 100 players at a given position and pick and choose ones that I think should be on the list. I don't want to influence the voting too much. But like I said above, suggestions are fine. Geovany Soto narrowly misses the cut, by the way.

hey at least you guys have the bulls... i have philadelphia. Unless you count Phantoms hockey and Wings lacrosse - and nobody does - our teams suck. Cleveland is pretty sad-sack too.

i could count at least a dozen people on this board who i'd rather have as cubs' gm than jim hendry. me being two of them.

Again, you're not restricted to these names - this is just a quick help. If other names - serious suggestions, not Jody Davis, Rick Wilkins and Hector Villanueva - start appearing on lists, then I'll edit this list to include those names as well. Johnny Bench -- BP page Yogi Berra -- BP page Bob Boone -- BP page Roger Bresnahan -- BP page Roy Campanella -- BP page Gary Carter -- BP page Mickey Cochrane -- BP page Bill Dickey -- BP page Buck Ewing -- BP page Rick Ferrell -- BP page Carlton Fisk -- BP page Bill Freehan -- BP page Gabby Hartnett -- BP page Elston Howard -- BP page Ernie Lombardi -- BP page Javy Lopez -- BP page Thurmon Munson -- BP page Lance Parrish -- BP page Mike Piazza -- BP page Darrell Porter -- BP page Jorge Posada -- BP page Pudge Rodriguez -- BP page Ray Schalk -- BP page Wally Schang -- BP page Ted Simmons -- BP page Gene Tenace -- BP page Joe Torre -- BP page

i respectfully disagree with your rankings. No way Randy Johnson should be ahead of Clemens.

In the next day or two, I'm going to start up the historical top 10 baseball players by position. I'll provide a link to their stats on baseball-reference and baseball prospectus (which has stats like WARP3, EqA, etc. for free, if you're sabermetrically-inclined). How it will run: -I'll give a list of names in alphabetical order to help. I'll probably select the top 20 on the Bill James player register, along with any Hall of Famers who are not on his top 20, and any current players who merit inclusion as well. -I will not be including any players from the Negro Leagues or any foreign leagues. If there were a good way to compare Josh Gibson to Johnny Bench, I'd love to do it, but so much of what we know about players in the Negro Leagues is anecdotal, and it would take a ton of research to have any shot at giving these players a fair ranking. So while you can certainly make mention of excluded players in the various threads - Josh Gibson probably being the best catcher ever, should be mentioned - please stick to just MLB players for your final list. -Rank your top 10. At the end of a given period, I'll total up all the choices, giving points on a 12-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 scale. Then I'll give the NSBB consensus rankings for the position. I'll probably give about 1.5 or 2 weeks for each position. -Players will be listed at the position at which they played the most games. If you want to penalize a SS for moving to 1B later in his career, that's fine, but do please consider them as a SS in this case. -For starting pitchers, we can expand the list to include more than 10 players. I'm thinking 20 or 25... thoughts? -I think relief pitching has been a big enough part of the game that we can now include top 10 for relievers. -The order of positions: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, RF, SP, RP -After we've finished with relief pitchers, I'll then do a top 25 overall, regardless of position. -Debate is fine - just be respectful of the opinions of others. Standard board rules apply, blah blah blah. -If a moderator could be kind enough to sticky the active threads, that would be greeeeeat. I'll start putting together the catcher list tonight; hopefully by tomorrow or Wednesday we can get going. Enjoy!

go holy cross! undefeated in the patriot league!

i understand that it's against the rules, so he shouldn't be getting high - but marijuana is really not a "problem"

guess we couldn't count on ALL the nl central teams to sabotage themselves

haha awesome

pssssst... anthony morelli

i'm sure the rest of the team will make sure the special teams unit has nothing to do with the loss

we sucked again :x