TruffleShuffle

yes because i don't think that cherry picking one season of fangraphs WAR while ignoring every other season and statistic is an accurate representation of how a player would be valued on the trade market, that's exactly it davearm, i mean kyle.

also sounds like some people don't understand how player valuation works. not to mention that they still traded guy they "missed their opportunity" to sell high on, and got such a return that the other general manager admitted to getting ripped off.

:lol:

soler is definitely much more highly appreciated (or rated) on this board than he is by BA/BP/etc. it's pretty rad that, if alcantara were still down at midseason, you could've made a strong argument that the cubs had 5 of the top 20 prospects in baseball. and even more rad that they are all hitting prospects in the high minors (i.e., lower risk of being a bust than the average prospect).

baez home run: http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?content_id=35076555&sid=milb two reactions: 1. the ball landed just over 3 seconds after it hit his bat, which is damned fast. 2. that was a line drive off the bat, and it cleared the bleachers in left! russell home run: http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?content_id=35076521&sid=milb reaction: for a guy with supposed 15 to 20 home run power, russell sure seems to drill a lot of 400+ foot home run. that was a BOMB.

also,

i can't wait til the cubs get awesome and people in missouri start hating on the cubs properly.

because we all know that a player's trade value is predicated solely on his most recent season's fangraphs WAR, while things like ERA, FIP, injury history, strikeout rate, and previous seasons' performance have no bearing. if only theo had convinced another general manager to gaze at garza's 2.95 FIP in 2011 while ignoring that his FIP had been over 4.00 every other season in his major league career.

gio gonzalez was an inferior pitcher to matt garza?!? i feel like i'm taking crazy pills.

i don't even know who the few nice guys are! castro and, i guess, garza (who was still 28). plus samardzija, but he wasn't transitioned to a starter until 2012. which other young stars am i missing? tony campana? casey coleman? blake dewitt?

not listed, because that option would have won by the same margin as russell over cespedes.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/59d89903250e13782a11b972c6dca9ef/tumblr_mw590mV4yB1rmin5no1_400.gif

except you're completely ignoring the composition of the major league clubs (both teams were packed with young pitching and the pirates with young hitting) and the composition of the minor league systems (players in the high minors versus low minors). i think/hope you're just doing this troll or get attention as per usual, because the alternative is that you're an abject moron.

I got what you were saying. I'm simply saying it's a meaningless distinction http://www.nsmbl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/homer_facepalm.jpg

the reds had a positive run differential in 2011, a lineup anchored by three very good players in their primes (votto, phillips, bruce) and one of the youngest pitching staffs in the league (including a bunch of starters in their early to mid 20s). among the indians best hitters were carlos santana, asdrubal cabrera, michael brantley and shin-soo choo, all players in their early to late 20s, plus they had jason kipnis make his debut in the second half. they also had a number of starting pitchers in their primes. their hitters' average age was third lowest in the AL, and their pitchers' average age was second lowest in the AL. the a's offense was old and not very good, but their starting pitching was good and all in their early to late 20s. of the three examples, the a's have probably "come from nowhere" moreso than the other clubs, but that's taken some combo of great scouting and great luck to unearth players like coco crisp, josh reddick and brandon moss. i guess you could argue that the cubs could have done the same thing, but there's a reason the a's have been regarded as one of the best-run organizations in baseball for over a decade. they're good at that stuff. by the way, kyle's original argument isn't even valid. BA ranked the cubs at #14 (which was clearly an over-ranking) after 2011. the pirates (#11) and a's (#7) were ranked higher.

http://i.imgur.com/j74SykU.gif that was weird. perhaps a unique form of dyslexia??

which teams were those? i'm looking forward to hearing this, because it will probably be extremely easy to punch holes in this argument.

Who thought the "plan" was going to take a shorter amount of time than this? Literally everyone three years ago. Even the people who wanted to rebuild would say things like "If we're not good by 2014, then I'll be right there with you." you mean back when people thought the team would continue to have a $130m payroll, and thought that soto and soriano and zambrano might continue to be viable baseball players, and that brett jackson, josh vitters and matt szczur would be up within a couple of years to help improve the big league club? your constant moaning about this is like people who bitch that obama didn't fix everything within a few months. just because a lot of people thought in late 2008 that the economy would be back to 5% unemployment and steady GDP growth by mid-2009 doesn't mean that this was at all a realistic expectation, given what we know now about the state of the national/global economy when obama took office.

here's a good measuring stick - if sulley is being more rational about you than the rebuild, it might be time to step back and re-evaluate your life.

PTR may be responsible for most of it, but the front office quite explicitly said they left payroll on the table this year. well good for them! fortunately the $10-15m or whatever they didn't spend actually still exists, rather than being piled up and burned in a massive bonfire, so they now have the option of spending it in future years.

i don't really even understand what you're raging about. #ptr is the one who mandated the small market-esque payroll, not epstein/hoyer. given that good players are making $15-25m a year on the open market, it's simply not an option to pack the lineup with a bunch of free agent stars like the dodgers have done. even one contract like robinson cano's would represent a disproportionately high percentage of the club's total salary. so unless they are able to score hits on every mid-priced veteran on the market - and they've done pretty well with that, in addition to bargain basement players like bonifacio, coghlin, ruggiano, sweeney, etc - then the only option is to fill from within. when they took over in 2012, the farm system was generally garbage, and it takes time to rebuild it - especially when the big league club has precious few appealing assets to sell off. wailing and gnashing of teeth toward the front office due to three non-contending seasons seems pretty dumb, given the condition of the organization when they took over, and the payroll constraints that we now know they're under.

you were arguing against a position that nobody is taking; that's the definition of strawmanning.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SV2t29C9Hc4/Udip0f3dFUI/AAAAAAAAAS4/6Kjr827vRPw/s1600/Strawman+playbackups+com.jpg

and within about 2 years, teams with $92m payrolls won't be winning as much as we are. stop being such a kyle.