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  • Let's Talk About the Cubs' Options With Regard to Kyle Hendricks


    Matt Trueblood

    The offseason won't kick off in earnest for another three weeks, but the Cubs have all the information they're going to get in order to make some important decisions. First on that list is the choice of whether to retain their longest-tenured player.

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    Under the terms of the long-term contract to which the Cubs signed Kyle Hendricks in March 2019, they hold a $16-million option on his services for 2024. A year ago, that looked unlikely to be picked up, but he had a solid 2023. That changes the calculus quite a bit, because $16 million doesn't buy what it used to. Besides, thanks to a buyout worth $1.5 million, it's really a $14.5-million decision for them.

    The Chicago rotation already has Justin Steele and Jameson Taillon firmly in place for 2024. Marcus Stroman is the one with a decision to make about his future, rather than the Cubs having one. Drew Smyly is under contract for 2024, though the team surely hopes they can relegate him to the bullpen, given what we saw in 2023. Jordan Wicks and Javier Assad, on the other hand, have earned the right to vie for places in the rotation to begin the season. 

    That gives the team a fairly crowded rotation depth chart, which would tend to nudge you toward cutting Hendricks loose. On the other hand, in 2023, he pitched more innings (137) than all but Steele, Taillon, and Smyly, and had a lower ERA (3.74) than all but Steele and Assad. He not only returned from a career-endangering shoulder injury, but looked as good as he has since 2020. His walk rate was a minuscule 4.7 percent, and he induced weak contact at one of the best rates in baseball. 

    Those are both fragile skills, though--at least at this stage of Hendricks's career. He will always run better-than-average walk and hard-hit rates, because of the nature of his approach, but to repeat (or even approximate) the numbers he put up in 2023, he'd need to remain nearly elite in those categories. That's hard to do, for a few reasons. First, limiting hard contact isn't a very sticky skill. Pitchers' rates don't correlate well year-to-year, even if one confines the sample to hurlers who had at least 250 batted balls against them in each of two consecutive seasons.

    Hard Hit Rate, Year-to-Year Correlation, 2021-23.png

    Second, Hendricks's low walk rate comes despite the fact that he doesn't throw very many strikes. Of 100 qualifying pitchers, Hendricks had the seventh-lowest Zone% in 2023. He relies on batters expanding the zone a little bit in order to keep that walk rate down, and while his stuff and command do encourage that, it's a hard thing to do on a long-term basis. Hendricks also faces a major hurdle, in that he really doesn't miss bats. Between nibbling so much (of necessity) and getting whiffs on just over 21 percent of swings, Hendricks's strikeout rate fell to 16.1 percent last year--his lowest clip since his rookie campaign of 2014.

    According to Baseball Prospectus's Deserved Run Average, which accounts for park factors, opponent quality, handedness matchups and other factors on a granular basis, Hendricks was actually a below-average pitcher last year. His batted-ball data and that low walk rate made some of his other peripheral statistics look good, but DRA debits him quite a bit for the lack of strikeouts. It even accounts for the above: Hendricks is only credited with 88 deserved strikeouts (against 93 actual ones) and he's saddled with 32 deserved walks (against 27 actual free passes). 

    If we accept the fact that Hendricks's hard-hit rate, walk rate, and strikeout rate are all likely to regress somewhat, it gets much less clear that he should come back in 2024--at least for $16 million. To those facts, add this one: shoulder capsular injuries like the one that sidelined Hendricks for the second half of 2022 and the first month and a half of 2023 have a tendency to recur. He survived that brush with pitching oblivion, but history suggests that he might get hurt again soon. 

    However, Hendricks is important to the organization. He's the link to the championship team. He's also a valued mentor and exemplar for the team's younger hurlers. The Cubs can't afford to keep him at the price set by his option terms. If possible, though, they should explore an extension to replace that deal. Last winter, Smyly signed a two-year deal worth $19 million, with incentives that could (and did) push the value higher and a team option for the third year. Hendricks is in a strikingly similar position right now. His superior track record and the relationship between team and player probably means he would command $11 million per year on a similar contract, instead of $9.5 million, but even that number represents a meaningful discount from the price tag on the option.

    As I wrote last week, the Cubs need to build a deep rotation for 2024. They should be ready to use six starters at a time, which means having eight or nine viable arms lined up going into spring training. Hendricks can be a valuable part of that. It just isn't going to work without a bit of maneuvering to get his price down, thereby creating more space for them to operate beneath whatever ceiling ownership puts on their winter spending.

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    Nitpick: I do feel it is definitely a 16 million dollar decision.  The payroll number being optimized is the LT number and for that the option is 16 or 0.  This isn’t true of every team though (e.g. the white sox might ultimately make a strange trade or two because of this)

    As far as Hendricks himself goes, if I’m still in the mode where I’m be planning out an ideal offseason, it’s difficult for me to have him and Stroman back unless they’re gonna go like 30+ million over the LT.  I don’t think they’ll do that unless it involves a lot of short term guaranteed money(Soto, Alonso, and Glasnow being potential examples), so to me this is mostly a matter of trying to predict Stroman’s behavior.  Good thing he’s a boring dude who never acts unpredictably, right?

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    23 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

    Nitpick: I do feel it is definitely a 16 million dollar decision.  The payroll number being optimized is the LT number and for that the option is 16 or 0.  This isn’t true of every team though (e.g. the white sox might ultimately make a strange trade or two because of this)

    As far as Hendricks himself goes, if I’m still in the mode where I’m be planning out an ideal offseason, it’s difficult for me to have him and Stroman back unless they’re gonna go like 30+ million over the LT.  I don’t think they’ll do that unless it involves a lot of short term guaranteed money(Soto, Alonso, and Glasnow being potential examples), so to me this is mostly a matter of trying to predict Stroman’s behavior.  Good thing he’s a boring dude who never acts unpredictably, right?

    It is a $16M decision if they don’t work something else out with him. Like not take the option but then sign him for something like $12m with a player option the next year. Similar to the Smyly deal. Personally I would let him go and use that money plus extra money and upgrade that rotation spot. But I am not sure the Cubs will spend for the high e d pitchers, unfortunately. 

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    1 hour ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

    Nitpick: I do feel it is definitely a 16 million dollar decision.  The payroll number being optimized is the LT number and for that the option is 16 or 0.  This isn’t true of every team though (e.g. the white sox might ultimately make a strange trade or two because of this)

    As far as Hendricks himself goes, if I’m still in the mode where I’m be planning out an ideal offseason, it’s difficult for me to have him and Stroman back unless they’re gonna go like 30+ million over the LT.  I don’t think they’ll do that unless it involves a lot of short term guaranteed money(Soto, Alonso, and Glasnow being potential examples), so to me this is mostly a matter of trying to predict Stroman’s behavior.  Good thing he’s a boring dude who never acts unpredictably, right?

    Good point, TT. If we account for the fact that the buyout would still have to be paid next year, we can think of it as somewhere between the two figures, but certainly the CBT numbers are the most important ones in the conversation. 

    I agree. If you bring him and Stroman back, it has to be in the context of a VERY aggressive winter.

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    I'll love him forever, but I just don't think he fits into the plans. He's a guy that you really can't peg as anything higher than a 5th starter on a contending team, and as of now we don't really have a third or fourth starter. Assad isn't it (4.93 FIP as a starter, 4.30 FIP overall), but his stuff plays up out of the pen and he's shown that ability to give you multiple effective innings in relief. I'm fine, pending spring training, giving a slot to Wicks, given his pedigree, youth, past ability to get strikeouts, his profile being kinda perfect for Dansby/Nico, and the fact that he should be stretched out enough to handle most of a full season load (126 innings total this year).

    Justin and Jameson are fine, though I think Steele got pushed pretty hard the second half and pretty clearly hit a wall, hoping it's not an injury risk going into next year.

    I think this is the offseason where we need to make significant educated guesses and be right. If you want to ride with Dansby/Happ/Suzuki/Nico (plus a top bat) as your core, then you have a three year window where roughly half your lineup is filled with everyday players. And then you have PCA, Alcantara, Canario, Caissie, Shaw, Triantos I guess, Mervis even more I guess, that other 3B that Tom loves, all sitting in the upper levels of the minors. While I know that 'logjam' will eventually work itself out if given the chance, there are significant holes to be filled on April 1st next year, and these are all pieces who can get us players who can do that. Find a bad teams young, controlled pitcher, give them an outfielder or third baseman they can build around for when their window opens in 2 years. Then do it again. 

    Apologies for being significantly off topic there...to circle back, can't give Kyle $15m knowing what we know about the market, PTR, etc. To reiterate, I will love him forever.

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    Inducing soft contact isn't a very sticky skill for sure, but I think Hendricks has enough of a track record that we can feel relatively comfortable baking it into his projection.  It's not a slam dunk given what he went through in '21/'22, but it feels reasonable to chalk that up to age/injury and think that post shoulder rehab (and with the accompanying velo boost) it's something he's regained.  I'd expect Kyle to put up a relatively similar year to last year.  Without context of the rest of the roster I think he's worth that $16M.

    That said, I agree that him plus Stroman on the roster is pretty messy, both for financial and future planning reasons.  I think ideally we'd have a rotation spot dedicated to the kids so that we can give them runway to establish themselves.  We also need a playoff caliber starter to pair with Steele.  That's 6 starters, which isn't unreasonable and doesn't seem very likely 

    My hope would be that Stroman just opts out.  I don't think anyone actually buys that his 2nd half struggles were anything permanent, just like I don't think anyone actually bought that he had achieved a new level in the first half.  You ding him some for durability sure, but he's more or less the same guy he's been for a while.  Given what happened to Ohtani and Urias, I don't see why some team wouldn't give him ~3/$60.  Even with his second half he's probably the #6 FA SP.

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    If stroman opts in, you almost have to let him go. With his injury history it's also a risky to allocate all that money for him. 

    But given hoyers affinity for handing out big dollar contracts above market value for less years on a contract, I think he's likely to exercise it. I'd rather that money go to Yamamoto 

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         This is a decision that probably will keep Hoyer up at night. There are many variables here to consider, both pro and con about Kyle returning in 2024. Performance wise, he was a little above adequate for the season. On a contending team you are probably looking at a guy who will be a tick or two above .500. So he won't be your alpha starter. There is also the injury bug. It's been pretty big as of late. Are we buying an increasing share in a diminishing market here? But then the question is who are you going to replace him with? $16 million is a considerable sum, but not what it once was. Maybe it will come down to who is available. For the most part he still tends to keep hitters slightly off balance, but when they square him up, the really square him up kind of "Charlie Brown" style. But that is normal with anybody. You have good days, you have bad days. I think it is going to be a push whether he stays or not. I think the availability of replacement pitchers the Cubs feel are obtainable will be what seals the deal. I don't think Kyle hurts us on the roster, but he also is not the guy he was five years ago, but then again who is.

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    2 hours ago, Billy62 said:

         This is a decision that probably will keep Hoyer up at night. There are many variables here to consider, both pro and con about Kyle returning in 2024. Performance wise, he was a little above adequate for the season. On a contending team you are probably looking at a guy who will be a tick or two above .500. So he won't be your alpha starter. There is also the injury bug. It's been pretty big as of late. Are we buying an increasing share in a diminishing market here? But then the question is who are you going to replace him with? $16 million is a considerable sum, but not what it once was. Maybe it will come down to who is available. For the most part he still tends to keep hitters slightly off balance, but when they square him up, the really square him up kind of "Charlie Brown" style. But that is normal with anybody. You have good days, you have bad days. I think it is going to be a push whether he stays or not. I think the availability of replacement pitchers the Cubs feel are obtainable will be what seals the deal. I don't think Kyle hurts us on the roster, but he also is not the guy he was five years ago, but then again who is.

    Kyle is fine. He can be a decent pitcher for his contract. Personally I think the Cubs won’t take the option but then try resigning him around $13M. Which is ok, as far as him earning his pay. The issue is the Cubs need someone better than that. They need a Nola or a Yamamoto to be the #1 pitcher. Then follow with Steele, Stroman(if he stays) and Tallion. That is a solid top 3. And I think Tallion will be much better next year. At the very least a solid #4. Then that last spot goes to a kid. I think if they keep Hendricks everyone moves up one spot and Hendricks slots at 4. Not nearly as good. And I doubt they sign a #1 if both Stroman and Kyle are on the team. 

    Now, if Stoman opts out I would be ok with keeping Kyle as long as they used the Stroman money + to go out and get a #1.

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    So the question of the day is, who stays and who goes? For certain we are keeping Ian Happ ($61M), Nico Hoerner ($35M), Seiya Suzuki ($56M), Dansby Swanson ($157M), and Jameson Taillon ($54M). We have to make decisions on the options of Cody Bellinger ($25M) - I certainly hope he comes back. I think what we saw was the real Cody, and I'd love to take that ride again. Brad Boxberger ($5M) - I was a little concerned about his health last year, but he could be effective when he pitched. Keeping him on the roster is not all that costly even though it would only take $800k to  buy him out. I still think that there should be a spot for him in the bullpen. Yan Gomes ($6M), I think I'd say yes to twice that figure. He is getting long in the tooth but I think he still has a season or two left in him. Kyle Hendricks ($16M), unless a better replacement comes down the road, I think Kyle would be a decent #3 or #4 man. Drew Smyly ($11M), I think the club should try to deal Drew in the off-season. He started the year in good shape, but by July was totally ineffective. Marcus Stroman ($21M), it is a tough call but I think the team should maybe deal him or let him opt out. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. There are several players eligible for arbitration. Adbert Alzolay ($2.5M), I think the team should tender him an offer. Not break the bank, but a competitive offer. As our de facto closer last season, he did a solid job. Nick Burdi ($800K), I think the team should pass on Burdi and let him test free-agency. Codi Heuer ($785K), Heuer was such a mystery with his penchant for injuries and was less than stellar when he did pitch. I think the Cubs should take a pass. I know it isn't a lot of money, but throw it back into the player acquisition fund for someone a bit more reliable. Mark Leiter Jr. ($1.6M), probably along with Alzolay, one of our most dependable relievers. Think the team should tender him an offer. Nick Madrigal ($1.9M), outside of the injuries Nick is a solid ballplayer. I think the team can retain him at not to hefty of a price tag. Julian Merryweather ($1.3M), Merryweather was pretty consistent out of the pen and should not be too expensive to keep. Justin Steele ($4.1M), A Cy Young candidate to be sure. The Cubs might want to lock him up for a few years. The future looks so promising. Mike Tauchman ($2M), unless the team can sign a better lead-off man, they should probably tender Tauchman an offer. Patrick Wisdom ($2.6M), the team should probably pass on Wisdom. He is a decent ballplayer, has good power, but really lacks in the productive out category. There is really no room for him on the roster except the bench. 

    The team has two free-agents in Jeimer Candelario and Michael Fulmer. I think they should make a contract offer to Candelario and take a pass on Fulmer. There will be some juicy free agents available, and if the team can sign one or two it might mean they would have to reconsider the option/free-agent list. The youngsters were a little less than awe inspiring with the exception maybe of Canario. Maybe a full spring and a little more seasoning can do the trick. The team can use another  big stick, an established starter, and some bullpen help. I am not sure of the status of Morel,  Assad and Cuas. I assume they remain under team control. Anyway, that's how I see it. But then again, I tend to need naps and still have troubles operating my I-phone, so it could be way off. 🙂

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    24 minutes ago, Billy62 said:

    So the question of the day is, who stays and who goes? For certain we are keeping Ian Happ ($61M), Nico Hoerner ($35M), Seiya Suzuki ($56M), Dansby Swanson ($157M), and Jameson Taillon ($54M). We have to make decisions on the options of Cody Bellinger ($25M) - I certainly hope he comes back. I think what we saw was the real Cody, and I'd love to take that ride again. Brad Boxberger ($5M) - I was a little concerned about his health last year, but he could be effective when he pitched. Keeping him on the roster is not all that costly even though it would only take $800k to  buy him out. I still think that there should be a spot for him in the bullpen. Yan Gomes ($6M), I think I'd say yes to twice that figure. He is getting long in the tooth but I think he still has a season or two left in him. Kyle Hendricks ($16M), unless a better replacement comes down the road, I think Kyle would be a decent #3 or #4 man. Drew Smyly ($11M), I think the club should try to deal Drew in the off-season. He started the year in good shape, but by July was totally ineffective. Marcus Stroman ($21M), it is a tough call but I think the team should maybe deal him or let him opt out. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. There are several players eligible for arbitration. Adbert Alzolay ($2.5M), I think the team should tender him an offer. Not break the bank, but a competitive offer. As our de facto closer last season, he did a solid job. Nick Burdi ($800K), I think the team should pass on Burdi and let him test free-agency. Codi Heuer ($785K), Heuer was such a mystery with his penchant for injuries and was less than stellar when he did pitch. I think the Cubs should take a pass. I know it isn't a lot of money, but throw it back into the player acquisition fund for someone a bit more reliable. Mark Leiter Jr. ($1.6M), probably along with Alzolay, one of our most dependable relievers. Think the team should tender him an offer. Nick Madrigal ($1.9M), outside of the injuries Nick is a solid ballplayer. I think the team can retain him at not to hefty of a price tag. Julian Merryweather ($1.3M), Merryweather was pretty consistent out of the pen and should not be too expensive to keep. Justin Steele ($4.1M), A Cy Young candidate to be sure. The Cubs might want to lock him up for a few years. The future looks so promising. Mike Tauchman ($2M), unless the team can sign a better lead-off man, they should probably tender Tauchman an offer. Patrick Wisdom ($2.6M), the team should probably pass on Wisdom. He is a decent ballplayer, has good power, but really lacks in the productive out category. There is really no room for him on the roster except the bench. 

    The team has two free-agents in Jeimer Candelario and Michael Fulmer. I think they should make a contract offer to Candelario and take a pass on Fulmer. There will be some juicy free agents available, and if the team can sign one or two it might mean they would have to reconsider the option/free-agent list. The youngsters were a little less than awe inspiring with the exception maybe of Canario. Maybe a full spring and a little more seasoning can do the trick. The team can use another  big stick, an established starter, and some bullpen help. I am not sure of the status of Morel,  Assad and Cuas. I assume they remain under team control. Anyway, that's how I see it. But then again, I tend to need naps and still have troubles operating my I-phone, so it could be way off. 🙂

    That $25M for Bellinger is not the teams option. The only person who will decide on Bellinger is Bellinger. And he isn’t going to come back for the one year. 

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    35 minutes ago, KCCub said:

    AAV play right?

    AAV, and also likely further indication they expect Stroman to stick around.

    If you have Stroman and Hendricks both as pending FAs, you potentially need to replace 2 rotation spots, plus Smyly's swing role, next winter.  The Cubs have enough promising kids that that might not be much of a problem, but it's still something you'd love to get ahead of if you can.  And you definitely can't compound the issue by trading for a starter in their walk year, like a Glasnow or a Bieber, if you already have two guys walking out the door after the season.

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    18 hours ago, Billy62 said:

    So the question of the day is, who stays and who goes? For certain we are keeping Ian Happ ($61M), Nico Hoerner ($35M), Seiya Suzuki ($56M), Dansby Swanson ($157M), and Jameson Taillon ($54M). We have to make decisions on the options of Cody Bellinger ($25M) - I certainly hope he comes back. I think what we saw was the real Cody, and I'd love to take that ride again. Brad Boxberger ($5M) - I was a little concerned about his health last year, but he could be effective when he pitched. Keeping him on the roster is not all that costly even though it would only take $800k to  buy him out. I still think that there should be a spot for him in the bullpen. Yan Gomes ($6M), I think I'd say yes to twice that figure. He is getting long in the tooth but I think he still has a season or two left in him. Kyle Hendricks ($16M), unless a better replacement comes down the road, I think Kyle would be a decent #3 or #4 man. Drew Smyly ($11M), I think the club should try to deal Drew in the off-season. He started the year in good shape, but by July was totally ineffective. Marcus Stroman ($21M), it is a tough call but I think the team should maybe deal him or let him opt out. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. There are several players eligible for arbitration. Adbert Alzolay ($2.5M), I think the team should tender him an offer. Not break the bank, but a competitive offer. As our de facto closer last season, he did a solid job. Nick Burdi ($800K), I think the team should pass on Burdi and let him test free-agency. Codi Heuer ($785K), Heuer was such a mystery with his penchant for injuries and was less than stellar when he did pitch. I think the Cubs should take a pass. I know it isn't a lot of money, but throw it back into the player acquisition fund for someone a bit more reliable. Mark Leiter Jr. ($1.6M), probably along with Alzolay, one of our most dependable relievers. Think the team should tender him an offer. Nick Madrigal ($1.9M), outside of the injuries Nick is a solid ballplayer. I think the team can retain him at not to hefty of a price tag. Julian Merryweather ($1.3M), Merryweather was pretty consistent out of the pen and should not be too expensive to keep. Justin Steele ($4.1M), A Cy Young candidate to be sure. The Cubs might want to lock him up for a few years. The future looks so promising. Mike Tauchman ($2M), unless the team can sign a better lead-off man, they should probably tender Tauchman an offer. Patrick Wisdom ($2.6M), the team should probably pass on Wisdom. He is a decent ballplayer, has good power, but really lacks in the productive out category. There is really no room for him on the roster except the bench. 

    The team has two free-agents in Jeimer Candelario and Michael Fulmer. I think they should make a contract offer to Candelario and take a pass on Fulmer. There will be some juicy free agents available, and if the team can sign one or two it might mean they would have to reconsider the option/free-agent list. The youngsters were a little less than awe inspiring with the exception maybe of Canario. Maybe a full spring and a little more seasoning can do the trick. The team can use another  big stick, an established starter, and some bullpen help. I am not sure of the status of Morel,  Assad and Cuas. I assume they remain under team control. Anyway, that's how I see it. But then again, I tend to need naps and still have troubles operating my I-phone, so it could be way off. 🙂

    Thankfully, the Cubs roster decisions are easy enough that they'll be based more on opening up spots for acquisition rather than finances.

    There are three buckets of players where you can make changes: Players with Option Decisions, Arbitration Eligible Players, and Pre-Arbitration players. 

    The option decisions are pretty easy, Gomes and Hendricks are clearly worth picking up and Stroman is in control of his player option (and while maybe not the best thing its hardly a major problem).  The mutual options for Boxberger and Bellinger are misleading.  Mutual options are honestly just an accounting trick to defer money.  They never get picked up because the odds of both sides being happy with the salary, and being happy enough to lock it in right at the start of the offseason, are basically nil.

    The arb guys are also thankfully not too heartburn inducing.  Here is what MLB Trade Rumors projects everyone to make

    Quote

     

    Codi Heuer (4.000): $785K

    Nick Madrigal (3.163): $1.9MM

    Mike Tauchman (3.143): $2MM

    Nick Burdi (3.140): $800K

    Julian Merryweather (3.109): $1.3MM

    Patrick Wisdom (3.058): $2.6MM

    Adbert Alzolay (3.050): $2.5MM

    Mark Leiter Jr. (3.031): $1.6MM

    Justin Steele (2.143): $4.1MM

     

    None of those salaries are all that onorous, so if Jed dumps anyone it will purely be about performance and the 40 man spot.  But if Jed wants anyone's roster spot he can non-tender them in November no harm no foul.

    Lastly you have all the guys making league minimum.  They can be dumped at basically any time.  But because they make league minimum, the only reason to do so would be for those aforementioned 40 man roster spots.

    So speaking of the 40 man, by my count the team is currently at 46 players, and you probably want to get down to 35ish.  There are 4 pending free agents in Bellinger, Boxberger, Canario, and Fulmer, which gets us to 42, and then Tyler Duffey and Shane Greene are extremely easy decisions to outright as well, which gets us to 40.  From there Id expect another couple cuts, probably Jared Young and one or two of the injured relievers.  And then trades will free up the last few spots (e.g. Brown, Alcantara, Canario).

    So all in all there's not really any painful decisions with the roster this winter.  It's all about just adding talent.

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    I've assumed that a Hendricks extension probably looks like something in the realm of 2/25, probably with a club or (tightly) vesting option.  It doesn't save a ton off the luxury tax and it might be a few more dollars than he would get on the open market, but it feels like something that matches the team's appreciation of Hendricks and recognition of his healthy standard of production while still giving that desired LT discount and pricing in his downside risk.

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    Kyle is kind of a BORP at this point. 4.77 ERA in 2021, 4.80 ERA in 2022, then injured.  More likely than not he doesn't repeat what he did last year and could easily get hurt again.  Good for depth but I hope they don't overspend.

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    1 hour ago, Stratos said:

    Kyle is kind of a BORP at this point. 4.77 ERA in 2021, 4.80 ERA in 2022, then injured.  More likely than not he doesn't repeat what he did last year and could easily get hurt again.  Good for depth but I hope they don't overspend.

    I think more accurate is he was injured in 21’ and 22’. And that affected his performance. I think he is more of a MOR starter then a BOR starter. I do expect he would be 3.50-4.00 era moving forward. That said, I feel they need a TOR starter. Not a 3-4 guy. I guess he is ok if they extend him on a 2/$25M, but I hope that doesn’t take them out of a TOR starter. Nola or Yamamoto. Or maybe a little less like Montgomery. 

     

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    5 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

    I think more accurate is he was injured in 21’ and 22’. And that affected his performance. I think he is more of a MOR starter then a BOR starter. I do expect he would be 3.50-4.00 era moving forward. That said, I feel they need a TOR starter. Not a 3-4 guy. I guess he is ok if they extend him on a 2/$25M, but I hope that doesn’t take them out of a TOR starter. Nola or Yamamoto. Or maybe a little less like Montgomery. 

     

    I never heard that, is it true he was injured both those years, or you just guessing?  That would change things.

    Apparently his MRI was clean when coming back in 2023 so that's at least good news.

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    8 hours ago, Stratos said:

    I never heard that, is it true he was injured both those years, or you just guessing?  That would change things.

    Apparently his MRI was clean when coming back in 2023 so that's at least good news.

    Probably more wishful thinking than anything else, tbh. However I do feel at times we tend to write a guy out the first sign of decline. And often it is just nagging injuries. If you look at those years, actually Kyle was only bad for the last 2 months of 21’ and then bad in only 16 starts in 22’, when they finally took him out of the rotation and put him on the IL for good. In 21’ he was trending towards a typical Kyle year. At the end of July he was at a 3.71 era. I think between losing all the guys you played with for so long and just being on a bad team that last 2 months of the season was more of an anomoly. As for 22’ if I remember correctly (and I may not) I feel he had nagging problems all year until they finally decided he has enough to get him out of the rotation. I just feel last year was more of the old Kyle and I also feel it is more likely repeated than his last half of 21’ and the 22’ season. I think he will be much closer to a 3.50 guy than a 4.80 guy. So a number 3 or very good #4 starter. 
    But, again, the issue with me is the Cubs need a frond or the rotation guy. So even a decent Kyle may not be worth signing if it prevents them from going after a TOR guy. 

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    It’s hard to say how long he was pitching with a capsular injury. I think we can chalk 2022 up to that the very least. I also think Hendricks saying he feels the best he has in a long time and his velo being up in 2023 tells part of the story. 

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    1 hour ago, KCCub said:

    It’s hard to say how long he was pitching with a capsular injury. I think we can chalk 2022 up to that the very least. I also think Hendricks saying he feels the best he has in a long time and his velo being up in 2023 tells part of the story. 

    That is kind of my point. I think IF Hendricks is completely healthy you will see a guy throw 180 innings at around a 3.40-3.85 era. Solid starter. Just not so sure they don’t need more than that. They need a TOR starter, IMO. 

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