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    The Three Levels of Possible Guardians-Cubs Trades That Could Be in Play


    Matthew Trueblood

    At this point, it's not the waiting game of Yoshinobu Yamamoto's free agency that is holding up the Cubs' winter. Rather, it's the long dance they're doing with the Cleveland Guardians, about multiple potential trades that could set the direction of their offseason.

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    There's no question that the Guardians are interested in trading Shane Bieber, who is set to make somewhere between $12 million and $14 million via arbitration in 2024 and hit free agency after the season. They won't trade him purely to shed that salary, though; they have other ways to manage their budgetary restrictions for the coming year. The Cubs, in turn, are interested in Bieber, but not at the cost of Christopher Morel or any of the top tier of prospects (Pete Crow-Armstrong, Cade Horton, or Kevin Alcantara) in their farm system.

    As the free agency of Shohei Ohtani and the trade markets of Juan Soto and Tyler Glasnow played out, these two teams circled each other and exchanged ideas about deals that would include Bieber, but also expand beyond him. Cleveland might have longer-term payroll constraints to consider, which could lead them to move first baseman Josh Naylor, closer Emmanuel Clase, or both. I've written about why Naylor and Clase would each be excellent fits for the Cubs, and I can directly report that the two sides have talked about permutations of deals that would involve each of these three players--though, as far as I know, not all three in any one deal.

    Let's take this from the abstract to the concrete. Here are three possible versions of a trade between the Cubs and Guardians, each of which is theoretically possible but (perhaps) none of which is actually likely. This way, we can better define what does and doesn't make sense for each side.

    The Clean Rental
    Cubs acquire Shane Bieber; Guardians acquire Alexander Canario and Brandon Birdsell

    One important thing to keep in mind, when trading with Cleveland, is that they are almost perpetually in a roster crunch. With a highly effective model-based approach to the draft and a solid operation in Latin America, the Guardians' farm system is almost always deep, but it's especially deep with guys who quickly fill up the 40-man roster. That model-centric draft strategy leads to a lot of college picks, and those guys become Rule 5-eligible sooner than high-school selections. Right now, Cleveland has a full 40-man roster, so (while they could always designate someone for assignment or make a separate move) they're not looking to take on multiple MLB-ready pieces in a trade for Bieber.

    This deal fits their needs neatly. Canario would slot right into an outfield mix that remains a disaster area, and Birdsell made six starts at Double A this season, but doesn't become Rule 5-eligible until after 2025. In the long run, Birdsell might need to move to the bullpen, and Canario might be a better platoon outfielder than everyday guy, but they each give Cleveland a nice blend of upside and surety, without straining their organizational logistics. The Cubs, meanwhile, can spare both players, as they each exist in areas of depth for the team. Bieber would slot in right alongside Justin Steele, Jameson Taillon, and Kyle Hendricks, in what would be a very flat but impressively deep starting corps.

    The Two-Birds, One-Stone Approach
    Cubs acquire Shane Bieber, Josh Naylor, and Myles Straw; Guardians acquire Kevin Alcántara, Ben Brown, Alexander Canario, Brandon Birdsell, and Haydn McGeary

    Crucially, this deal is not just about the Cubs filling two of their most urgent needs. It also doubles Cleveland's pleasure. The Guardians signed Straw to a five-year contract extension in April 2022, and they almost immediately regretted it. After he'd excited them with a season in which he batted .271/.349/.348 with excellent outfield defense, he's batted .229/.296/.284 in the two seasons since. Now 29, Straw is still a solid defensive center fielder, but that bat is unplayable, at least as anything more than a fifth outfielder. He's due $4.5 million in 2024, $13 million over the following two seasons, and then small buyouts on club options for 2027 and 2028. 

    Such a deal wouldn't hamstring the Cubs, of course, but it's the kind of mistake the Guardians really can't afford. They've been looking for ways to get out from under it, although their desire to do so comes far short of compelling them to give up a prospect just to do so. In this trade, they get major value for both Bieber and Naylor, and they also clear Straw's contract from their books. The Cubs, of course, fill both their rotation and their first base void. Alcántara would be a major loss, given his tremendous upside, but the team's medium-term outfield picture is crowded enough to make it worthwhile. 

    Notably, this deal amounts to stacking Naylor and Straw (bad contract and all) for Alcántara, Brown, and McGeary atop the first trade. That's a plausible structure, but whether the Guardians would actually take an interest in it depends on where they fall on the wide spectrum of industry opinions about both Alcántara and Brown. For what it's worth, Brown is a good fit for what Cleveland likes to target and do with young hurlers.

    The Moonshot
    Cubs acquire Shane Bieber and Emmanuel Clase; Guardians acquire Christopher Morel, Kevin Alcántara, Brody McCullough and Brandon Birdsell

    This will seem far too rich to most Cubs fans, which reflects the reality of the stalemate between the teams. The Cubs are willing to move Morel, but they view him as a very valuable trade piece. Other teams, including the Guardians, see him as desirable but not a premium chip. If a deal around Bieber and Clase came together, it would probably be because the Cubs capitulated on giving up one of their top three prospects (they'd sooner let go of Alcántara than Pete Crow-Armstrong or Cade Horton, at this stage) and met the Guardians halfway on Morel.

    Right now, the Cubs' most urgent need is for better pitching depth. This move would solve that in one fell swoop, and Clase's long-term, team-friendly deal would give it a long-lasting impact. With the losses of Morel and Crow-Armstrong, they'd then face an equally urgent imperative to shore up the offense (and the outfield), and Bieber and Clase would take up a good-sized chunk of their payroll, so the viability of it might hinge on the team's sense of their budgetary flexibility. 

    Still, there are ways to make up for the losses of Morel and Alcántara via free agency, and the Cubs' organizational pitching depth is sufficient to cushion the blow of giving up Birdsell and McCullough. This version of the deal is the least likely, but it would have the greatest chance of setting up the Cubs to compete for a World Series in the short term, and it would simultaneously have the greatest long-term impact of any of these possibilities.

    What do you think? Are any of these moves you would endorse? What changes to these frameworks do you propose? Bring me any good thoughts. Bring me anything but screenshots of the Trade Values site.

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    Brock Beauchamp

    Posted

    15 minutes ago, DK1230 said:

    IMHO, if you don't have a playoff roster, and the Cubs do not currently have that, unless you're acquiring difference makers, none of these trades make a great deal of sense.  It could be aruged that Bieber may "make a difference" though with regressing stuff I'm not sure I'd be willing to pinpoint him as a true needle mover.  The rest of the given options are merely hole-filling and wouldn't make this team playoff-competitive and thus I wouldn't imagine any of them are actually necessary deals to consider.

    Welcome to NSBB!

    I think the assumption is that these trades are not a replacement for signing free agents but a supplement to additional moves. If the Cubs get Bieber and then Chapman or Bellinger, then follow up with a lesser free agent for 1B/3B, they're in decent shape.

    That's a lot of tasks to accomplish, though.

    Transmogrified Tiger

    Posted

    I doubt it's the most *likely* option, but I half wonder if there's a 3 team deal to be had there, where Bieber and a bat from a 3rd team comes to the Cubs, a 'bigger than Bieber's value' prospect goes from the Cubs to the Guardians, and the Guardians make up the difference across to the third team.  If they don't agree on Naylor's value but are pretty interested in getting Bieber over the line that would match up on motivations, though I'm not certain who a great partner is since some potential 3rd teams are divisional rivals of either team that don't trade often(Twins, Reds).

    We Got The Whole 9

    Posted

    46 minutes ago, DK1230 said:

    IMHO, if you don't have a playoff roster, and the Cubs do not currently have that, unless you're acquiring difference makers, none of these trades make a great deal of sense.  It could be aruged that Bieber may "make a difference" though with regressing stuff I'm not sure I'd be willing to pinpoint him as a true needle mover.  The rest of the given options are merely hole-filling and wouldn't make this team playoff-competitive and thus I wouldn't imagine any of them are actually necessary deals to consider.

    I think if the Cubs add guys who project to combine for 8-10 war they will absolutely have a playoff-competitive team. It's pretty clear though that Hoyer is willing to slow-play their ascension and see what the young players produce this year as well. But you get a guy like Clase at the back of your pen and suddenly you have Alzolay as a lockdown setup guy and Counsell to play the matchups (and use Luke Little) - that alone, IMO, could provide a significant swing in the competiveness of the team. Naylor as a 125 bat who wouldn't need a platoon and puts the ball in play, that would be a difference-maker for the offense. It's ok to add great pieces as you go, and not just wait until you think the team is ready to compete. 

    Bertz

    Posted

    Not the most detailed look but appears that ZiPS still loves Bieber

     

    Backtobanks

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Bertz said:

    Not the most detailed look but appears that ZiPS still loves Bieber

    And not very impressed with Naylor.

     

     

    17 Seconds

    Posted

    what's going on with cleveland's tv deal? could that be holding anything up?

    mul21

    Posted

    28 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

    what's going on with cleveland's tv deal? could that be holding anything up?

    If it's anything like what's happening in STL, it sounds like status quo for the 2024 season and Amazon may get involved to stabilize things and make games available on a streaming platform.  The Bally's app is just absolute hot garbage.  You have to log in (with varying levels of success based on personal experience) every single time you open the app on a Firestick or other device and it constantly cuts out and is difficult to use.

    • Like 1
    mul21

    Posted

    38 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

    what's going on with cleveland's tv deal? could that be holding anything up?

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39146754/mlb-free-agency-2023-24-rsn-tv-diamond-sports

    The important part if you don't have a log in:

    There will be at least three -- the Padres and D-backs once again and, sources said, the Colorado Rockies, who have been left without a TV deal now that Warner Bros. Discovery has essentially left the regional sports business. The Minnesota Twins, whose Bally Sports contract expired at season's end, could also join MLB for the 2024 season. So might the Texas Rangers and Cleveland Guardians, two teams Diamond will likely shed this offseason.

    Based on what's being said here, it sounds like revenues will be impacted (estimated 20% of team revenues come from local TV rights) but MLB will make sure games continue to be aired in local markets, whether it's a cable channel or in network streaming through MLBTV, which is what they did last year in AZ and SD.

    • Like 1
    Bertz

    Posted

    22 minutes ago, mul21 said:

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39146754/mlb-free-agency-2023-24-rsn-tv-diamond-sports

    The important part if you don't have a log in:

    There will be at least three -- the Padres and D-backs once again and, sources said, the Colorado Rockies, who have been left without a TV deal now that Warner Bros. Discovery has essentially left the regional sports business. The Minnesota Twins, whose Bally Sports contract expired at season's end, could also join MLB for the 2024 season. So might the Texas Rangers and Cleveland Guardians, two teams Diamond will likely shed this offseason.

    Based on what's being said here, it sounds like revenues will be impacted (estimated 20% of team revenues come from local TV rights) but MLB will make sure games continue to be aired in local markets, whether it's a cable channel or in network streaming through MLBTV, which is what they did last year in AZ and SD.

    That's a really good article.  Nice find.

    I think what I saw from a Cleveland specific writer last week when that court date got pushed, and is backed up by this from ESPN, is that things are actually looking pretty decent for 2024.  Diamond's going to pay most of their rights for 2024 and then dissolve.  So it's afterwards where there's massive uncertainty. 

    For us hoping to pick all the fat off of Cleveland's roster it probably doesn't change much, since Bieber is only on a one year deal and Naylor doesn't have guaranteed money for '25.  It's more for anyone hoping that e.g. the Rangers or Angels keep away from Jordan Montgomery that it might be a very big deal.




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