Prospects Received in Fukudome Trade

[Sammy Sofa]

His defense isn't very good. Look up his metrics. It's serviceable, but in no way are we talking about some kind of defensive whiz.

 

Fukudome's OBP month by month this year:

 

.486

.389

.315

.329

[CubsWin]

Cubswin - That last crack about the Cubs crack scouting staff ... well, they actually, under Hendry, have done a decent job of mining minor leaguers in trades. They got Ceda/Archer/Rosscup/Mateo and others. There's been some misses, as with all teams (Fabian Jimenez-Angulo and Joel Santo deal comes to mind), but they do a fairly good job of scouting other orgs minor leagues.

 

All that said, as noted, I'm not enthused about either guy, particularly since I've seen Abreu a lot. That being said, what did the Cubs give up? Again, Kosuke from May 1st and on had a rough line of .245/.330-.340/.361. That's not that good of an OF. His defense isn't plus, and it's questionable if it's above average.

 

Who's really going to give up anyone of intrigue, even a far-away 18 year old, for a guy like that? It's more likely that he performs the way he has the last three months, than the way he performed in April. How much better is Kosuke than the guy they cut to create room for him, Travis Buck?

 

Again, I'm not sure we were working with that much value here. I don't like Abreu, but he's a decent lottery ticket who was working on swing adjustments.

It wasn't a crack. I believe the Cubs have an excellent team of scouts. I meant it.

 

I would like to see the team's philosophy put a little more weight on sabermetrics and the importance of plate discipline, but they have one of the better scouting teams in the game.

[toonsterwu]

Ah, sorry, that sounded like a crack. My bad. I think we all would like to see the Cubs emphasize metrics more, although in the process of doing that, they would likely have to revamp their entire scouting staff, as it's more of an "old-school" scouting group. But that's for the post-Hendry era, whenever that comes around.

[CubsWin]

His defense isn't very good. Look up his metrics. It's serviceable, but in no way are we talking about some kind of defensive whiz.

 

Fukudome's OBP month by month this year:

 

.486

.389

.315

.329

I guess it can't rebound then. If he's this bad, why are the Indians trading for him when they have so much at stake this season? I guess their scouts are idiots. But if they want him, they want him. It doesn't mean the Cubs have to take these guys in return? Just cover less of the salary.

[CubsWin]

Ah, sorry, that sounded like a crack. My bad. I think we all would like to see the Cubs emphasize metrics more, although in the process of doing that, they would likely have to revamp their entire scouting staff, as it's more of an "old-school" scouting group. But that's for the post-Hendry era, whenever that comes around.

Most likely, but good scouts are good scouts. Ultimately, it's what the decision makers value. Getting a good read on what a guy is projected to be good at is helpful either way.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Considering the money they ate, I think they could have gotten a younger, lower level guy instead of the 25 year old reliever. Im not saying a top prospect, but someone more promising than a guy who may or may not be any better than Justin Berg.

 

While I don't like Abreu, I tend to think he was the key to the deal and Carlton Smith was the throw-in.

 

I would've preferred the Cubs mine their lower levels for an arm as well.

 

We should have thrown him back. Have you seen the guys career minor league numbers? Blech. Give me the crab juice.

[Sammy Sofa]

His defense isn't very good. Look up his metrics. It's serviceable, but in no way are we talking about some kind of defensive whiz.

 

Fukudome's OBP month by month this year:

 

.486

.389

.315

.329

I guess it can't rebound then. If he's this bad, why are the Indians trading for him when they have so much at stake this season? I guess their scouts are idiots. But if they want him, they want him. It doesn't mean the Cubs have to take these guys in return? Just cover less of the salary.

 

Because maybe the money saved her is going to signing their draft picks from their very good draft this year. Really would rather go with that than picking up the tab for Kosuke so they can get a marginal increase in the return they're getting from the Indians.

 

And the Indians probably want him because he's cheap in this deal and because there's the chance his OBP could rebound. I'm just pointed out the trend that would indicate why the Cubs weren't going to get a very good return for him. You're simply overvaluing him.

[CubsWin]

You're simply overvaluing him.

Maybe.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're simply overvaluing him.

Maybe.

 

I mean, I like Kosuke, but he is what he is at this point and the Cubs simply were not in a good position to get much back for him.

[CubsWin]

Because maybe the money saved her is going to signing their draft picks from their very good draft this year. Really would rather go with that than picking up the tab for Kosuke so they can get a marginal increase in the return they're getting from the Indians.

Don't really follow the logic here. I'm wanting the Cubs to give less money to the Indians in return for taking no minor leaguers in the trade. Instead of getting organizational filler and covering 4 million of his contract. Take no players back and pay less of Kosuke's remaining salary. That way the Cubs would have more money to spend on their draft picks.

[toonsterwu]

Considering the money they ate, I think they could have gotten a younger, lower level guy instead of the 25 year old reliever. Im not saying a top prospect, but someone more promising than a guy who may or may not be any better than Justin Berg.

 

While I don't like Abreu, I tend to think he was the key to the deal and Carlton Smith was the throw-in.

 

I would've preferred the Cubs mine their lower levels for an arm as well.

 

We should have thrown him back. Have you seen the guys career minor league numbers? Blech. Give me the crab juice.

 

Throw-ins to a deal tend not to be that good/critical. All that said, while I think he's more upper level filler (and there is certainly a role for that), he could perhaps be a guy that cycles in and out of middle relief, as a long man type. His velocity has been better since moving to the pen.

[CubsWin]

You're simply overvaluing him.

Maybe.

 

I mean, I like Kosuke, but he is what he is at this point and the Cubs simply were not in a good position to get much back for him.

I'm not debating that. Never have been. I'm debating why take those two guys at all?

 

And whereas Kosuke is what he is, the Indians are the team that's not in a good position, not the Cubs.

[Sammy Sofa]

Because maybe the money saved her is going to signing their draft picks from their very good draft this year. Really would rather go with that than picking up the tab for Kosuke so they can get a marginal increase in the return they're getting from the Indians.

Don't really follow the logic here. I'm wanting the Cubs to give less money to the Indians in return for taking no minor leaguers in the trade. Instead of getting organizational filler and covering 4 million of his contract. Take no players back and pay less of Kosuke's remaining salary. That way the Cubs would have more money to spend on their draft picks.

 

How much are these players making?

[CubsWin]

Because maybe the money saved her is going to signing their draft picks from their very good draft this year. Really would rather go with that than picking up the tab for Kosuke so they can get a marginal increase in the return they're getting from the Indians.

Don't really follow the logic here. I'm wanting the Cubs to give less money to the Indians in return for taking no minor leaguers in the trade. Instead of getting organizational filler and covering 4 million of his contract. Take no players back and pay less of Kosuke's remaining salary. That way the Cubs would have more money to spend on their draft picks.

 

How much are these players making?

Why would that matter. The organizational filler guys are making next to nothing. But if you counter-offer the Indians with "how about you don't give us any minor leaguers and we pay 3.5 million instead of 4" that would make sense given how badly the Indians need a decent OFer right now.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm having trouble following your logic. Given that these guys are in the Indian's minor league system and aren't any great shakes I can't imagine they're making all that much. Why would the Indians, a team with limited financial resources, take on more of Fukudome's contract instead of giving up a pair of likely inconsequential prospects who almost certainly aren't costing 500k, much less a million dollars? Money is more valuable to the Indians than these guys.

[CubsWin]

I'm having trouble following your logic. Given that these guys are in the Indian's minor league system and aren't any great shakes I can't imagine they're making all that much. Why would the Indians, a team with limited financial resources, take on more of Fukudome's contract instead of giving up a pair of likely inconsequential prospects who almost certainly aren't costing 500k, much less a million dollars? Money is more valuable to the Indians than these guys.

Great. So why would the Cubs want them? How did they get into the deal in the first place?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I do remember reading a few days ago on MLBTR that there were 4 teams interested in Fukudome. I dont see why they jumped on this deal so quickly. We really had nothing to lose if we waited until Sunday or even the waiver deadline.

[Sammy Sofa]

I would assume the Cubs wanted some kind of player return and that's the best that was made available to them of what they wanted.

[CubsWin]

Money is more valuable to the Indians than these guys.

True, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying having a decent OFer to fill-in for Sizemore and Choo while they are on the DL is more valuable than money to the Indians.

[Sammy Sofa]

I do remember reading a few days ago on MLBTR that there were 4 teams interested in Fukudome. I dont see why they jumped on this deal so quickly. We really had nothing to lose if we waited until Sunday or even the waiver deadline.

 

Because Kosuke Fukudome isn't the kind of player you can force a last minute deal for.

[Shilzzz]

i just hope the money saved on fukudome's contract will help pay for either a draftee or an international prospect. otherwise, whatever.

[Shilzzz]

moreso, i hope that colvin doesn't come up and have one good month and have management fall in love with him again to a fault. that is the only real possible downside of the deal.

[CubsWin]

moreso, i hope that colvin doesn't come up and have one good month and have management fall in love with him again to a fault. that is the only real possible downside of the deal.

He could come up, have two really good months and the Cubs could trade him...

 

:beg: :beg: :beg:

[Shilzzz]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9Lp273XJu6o/R2BTWOX007I/AAAAAAAAA6k/xL7wFbznRnI/s400/harrycaray.jpg

[Guancous]

Short version: Something > Nothing