Cubs Meeting With Japanese Ace Roki Sasaki

22 minutes ago, imb said:

you absolutely can blame Jed. he's managed this roster for how many years now? And every year the top FAs hit the market as *perfect* options for our roster, and we either don't try, can't try, or try and fail. Any idiot could trade some spare parts for Kyle Tucker. At some point he needs to succeed at the actual difficult parts of his job. 

Oh I absolutely blame him for the roster. I just don’t think you can pin Sasaki on him. With the money being nearly the same, it comes down to his preferences, of which, we don’t know.. It really sucks though because I don’t actually trust Jed to improve the club much the rest of the offseason. 

Just now, ToolDRT said:

Oh I absolutely blame him for the roster. I just don’t think you can pin Sasaki on him. With the money being nearly the same, it comes down to his preferences, of which, we don’t know.. It really sucks though because I don’t actually trust Jed to improve the club much the rest of the offseason. 

maybe his preference was to play for the best team, too bad that's not us. Let's call Brooks Raley real quick, his shift at Taco Bell is almost over. 

Also wonder what the Blue Jays are pitching that nearly got them Ohtani and now possibly Sasaki (hes definitely a dodger but still in the top 3). 

8 minutes ago, imb said:

maybe his preference was to play for the best team, too bad that's not us. Let's call Brooks Raley real quick, his shift at Taco Bell is almost over. 

That’s not the blue jays either. Though, I do understand the point you’re making. 

8 minutes ago, imb said:

we're quickly running out of reasons we failed to sign a FA. harper's deal was too long! 13 years? Crazy. Ohtani? Oh he wanted the DH. What, he's a FA again but now we can offer DH? Well he just always wanted LA anyway. Soto? He's already a poor defender. PASS. Sasaki? He costs nothing and only pitches? Oh uhhhhh well he really likes the coast too. Who else am I missing? They can't keep missing on these guys and losing. One or the other please.

So, I fully agree with your larger point - there's a time when the Chicago Cubs need to remember they're a big-boy organization and throw some weight around. I have some hope (looking at Hoyer quotes, how he approached Soto, and the money that is coming off the books shortly) that the Cubs plan on earnestly approaching the Tucker contingent and working on getting that done over the next ten months. Whether it happens or not...well....we'll see. But yeah, the Cubs need to start winning battles.

With Sasaki, there just comes a point where you have to ask "what more were they supposed to do?". If it's a geographic thing, you can't pick Chicago up and drop it in Orange County, and with IFA rules, you can't throw cash at the problem. The Cubs have lost a lot of that good will, so I understand the frustration - if they didn't act like this all the time, it'd be easier to push this one off.

Team needs to start taking active steps to push towards 90+ wins or more. My hope is that they will add a Yates and like a Moncada, and then as the TDL barrels down, will further dip into the prospect grouping and grab a SP pushing the team forward while working towards a Tucker extension. We'll see if we can get there.

5 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

That’s not the blue jays either. Though, I do understand the point you’re making. 

the fact we are considered a lesser option to the messy ass blue jays is 100000x worse than him just eventually picking the dodgers

5 minutes ago, imb said:

the fact we are considered a lesser option to the messy ass blue jays is 100000x worse than him just eventually picking the dodgers

By this logic we're a better team than the Braves and Phillies

19 minutes ago, Bertz said:

By this logic we're a better team than the Braves and Phillies

no, by that logic he considered us a better option than the braves and phillies

29 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

With Sasaki, there just comes a point where you have to ask "what more were they supposed to do?".

be good enough that he wants to play for us? harper's contract was too long, ohtani wants to be a DH oops now he just wants to stay in LA, Soto is a bad defender, Sasaki wants to be on the coast. always an excuse.

2 minutes ago, imb said:

no, by that logic he considered us a better option than the braves and phillies

How do you reconcile this decision being a referendum on the Cubs with the fact that two of the five best teams in the league were given the cold shoulder from jump.  Why aren't the Mets with their Scrooge McDuck owner a finalist?

My theory is that in the absence of financial incentives Sasaki is making his choice based on geography.  But apparently I'm being obtuse.

6 minutes ago, imb said:

be good enough that he wants to play for us? harper's contract was too long, ohtani wants to be a DH oops now he just wants to stay in LA, Soto is a bad defender, Sasaki wants to be on the coast. always an excuse.

The Braves and Phillies have both been significantly better than the Cubs recently and he didn't even sit down with them - I don't think winning and losing is doing the heavy lifting. Toronto might be losing Bichette and Vlad shortly (more reports are Bichette for sure), as well. And I think today, handicapping it, San Diego feels like who I'd put money on getting him over the Dodgers - and they're about to sell off some money. This feels bigger than wins and losses. 

Ohtani? It seems like he just wanted to go to LAD right off the bat. Again, I don't think there was much to do there. 

Soto? Well, I'll give you it's annoying they sat that out. They have a small chance to go and rectify that by extending Tucker. Tucker isn't as good as Soto (probably - though his 80 games last year was right on par). But he'd be a fine consolation prize.

Harper? Yeah that's a stinger. I'm annoyed there too. 

But it feels like this is more or less a culmination of being frustrated (which is fair) instead of being really logical about Sasaki, which I really don't think they could have done more on. I think both things can be true - that the Cubs haven't always acted within their means appropriately, and that Roki Sasaki was given the best shot and this was out of their control. If the Cubs had done more on the first, then I think the second would sting less - but I don't think it's a cause and effect, either.

Because it’s not *just* Sasaki. We’re just talking about him because he’s our latest FA failure. 

in reality this is the most frustrating because it’s emblematic of the bigger issue. Every single prior FA failure has come with a caveat. Contract is too long. Money is too high. He won’t age well. He wants to be a DH. He wants the coast. 

Sasaki came with none of those. His contact isn’t too long. He costs nothing. He’s a position of need. There’s no defensive or positional worries. And he still won’t come here. If we can’t sign that guy, who can we sign?

10 minutes ago, Bertz said:

How do you reconcile this decision being a referendum on the Cubs with the fact that two of the five best teams in the league were given the cold shoulder from jump.  Why aren't the Mets with their Scrooge McDuck owner a finalist?

My theory is that in the absence of financial incentives Sasaki is making his choice based on geography.  But apparently I'm being obtuse.

Sure it’s probably geography. That’s it. That explains the 38 hour difference between finalists Toronto and San diego

1 minute ago, imb said:

If we can’t sign that guy, who can we sign?

In theory, any other player who the Cubs are willing to pay more than the competition.  Will they ever meet the asking price of a star player?  Right now it doesn't appear that way.  But that has no bearing on the Sasaki decision.  No matter how badly they wanted Sasaki, their hands were tied.  It's annoying that he is signing elsewhere, but I can't fault Jed.  I CAN fault Jed for everything else he has done and continues to do in building this boring, uninspired roster.

Wont pay for the expensive stars. Can’t sign the cheap stars. Hmm, that almost sounds like a losing strategy. At some point Jed, whose sole job it is to put a winner on the field, needs to figure that out. 

1 hour ago, imb said:

the fact we are considered a lesser option to the messy ass blue jays is 100000x worse than him just eventually picking the dodgers

I mean we really don’t know his preference though. Maybe he has no interest in playing in Chicago during the cold months. Maybe the wind blowing out scared him away. We have no way of knowing. What we do know is Jed needs to get off his ass and make a big boy move. I just feel like Tucker is a one year move to try and save his own ass. So I can’t even feel excited about that one. 

8 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

I mean we really don’t know his preference though. Maybe he has no interest in playing in Chicago during the cold months. Maybe the wind blowing out scared him away. We have no way of knowing. What we do know is Jed needs to get off his ass and make a big boy move. I just feel like Tucker is a one year move to try and save his own ass. So I can’t even feel excited about that one. 

Honestly if they lock Tucker up, all is forgiven on my end. You can’t get them all and he’s in the A-tier for me if not higher. But if not Jed better get ready for some SCATHING POSTS FROM YOURS TRULY 

Just now, imb said:

Honestly if they lock Tucker up, all is forgiven on my end. You can’t get them all and he’s in the A-tier for me if not higher. But if not Jed better get ready for some SCATHING POSTS FROM YOURS TRULY 

In that case he will probably have plenty of time to read them too!  Which is really where I am at the moment, we can hand wring the specific acquisition that marks whether Jed is doing enough with the top of the roster, but if they don't make the playoffs this year Jed is gone and whether everyone agrees on who counts as a 'star' or what FA he reasonably could have signed doesn't matter.  I believe right now they project as the 3rd best team in the NL by ZiPS(probably closer to 6th than 2nd), if that holds true they're probably even money or better to extend Tucker.  If it doesn't then Jed probably won't be around to answer whether or not he ever could sign the deal that made everyone happy.

I think it is hard to criticize Hoyer or ownership on this situation. Sasaki was a long shot, at best. But I do think they are fair game to criticize the off season as a whole if they don’t do much more. If they add a quality starting pitcher and a back end pen arm along with some bench help it can still be a good offseason. So now is the time for the FO to get to work. If they don’t spend the $35M they can, and still be well under the LT, ownership and the FO deserves all the criticism they receive. There is no way this should be the finished product. I still think they will make moves. But they still might have to wait until Sasaki picks his team. 

Quote

Over the winter, the Cubs added Matthew Boyd to a rotation led by Shota Imanaga, Justin Steele and Jameson Taillon. Additionally, Chicago has back-end options, including Javier Assad and the recently signed Colin Rea. Last season, the team’s starting rotation posted a 3.77 ERA, good enough for sixth-best in baseball. Still, team president Jed Hoyer was clear that the team would prioritize additional pitching. Even with the additions of Boyd and Rea, it can’t be assumed that the Cubs are done upgrading the unit.

Via Sharma in his writeup of the team losing out on Sasaki.  Not "the team is definitely going to add more starting pitching and here are some names to watch" but appears to back up Rea just being a depth move with or without winning the Sasaki lottery.

This is a post I made in one of the front-page articles and it sums up my view of Jed's tenure:

Jed has a type. That type is Ian Happ. They love athletic college bats who perform well in wood-bat leagues. They value certainty (not the right word) in their high draft pics and it’s why they choose college players with a “high floor” (I don’t like that either). Then they go over slot later in the draft in more of a gamble. Jed is always hedging his bets. It’s not necessarily a bad strategy, but the results typically are good, not great. Good, not great isn’t necessarily bad either if you’re willing to buy greatness when it’s available. They’ve not done that. Recently Jed’s made a point of talking about “clean books,” whatever the hell that means. The point of clean books is to go after top free agents I would guess. But they had clean books before and chose Swanson, a defensive stalwart with a light bat. Not a star and he’s the face of the franchise. In a year or two his book will get messy too. 

1 hour ago, CubinNY said:

This is a post I made in one of the front-page articles and it sums up my view of Jed's tenure:

 

Jed has a type. That type is Ian Happ. They love athletic college bats who perform well in wood-bat leagues. They value certainty (not the right word) in their high draft pics and it’s why they choose college players with a “high floor” (I don’t like that either). Then they go over slot later in the draft in more of a gamble. Jed is always hedging his bets. It’s not necessarily a bad strategy, but the results typically are good, not great. Good, not great isn’t necessarily bad either if you’re willing to buy greatness when it’s available. They’ve not done that. Recently Jed’s made a point of talking about “clean books,” whatever the hell that means. The point of clean books is to go after top free agents I would guess. But they had clean books before and chose Swanson, a defensive stalwart with a light bat. Not a star and he’s the face of the franchise. In a year or two his book will get messy too. 

Number of players drafted in the 2015 draft, after Ian Happ, in the top 5 rounds, with a higher WAR than Ian Happ: One.

Number of players drafted ahead of Ian Happ in the 2015 draft with higher WAR than Ian Happ: Three. Two of which currently play for the Cubs. 

Combined 2023-2024 fWAR of the shortstops available in the 2022-2023 offseason:

1. Dansby Swanson - 9.2 fWAR (7 years, $177m, 2nd youngest of the four)
2. Trea Turner - 8.2 fWAR (11 years, $300m, 2nd oldest of the four)
3. Xander Bogaerts - 6.6 fWAR (11 years, $280m, oldest of the four)
4. Carlos Correa - 6.1 fWAR (6 years, $200m, youngest of the four)

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Jed (and we should all really be more critical of the end of Theo's time). These two are not it. 

3 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Number of players drafted in the 2015 draft, after Ian Happ, in the top 5 rounds, with a higher WAR than Ian Happ: One.

Number of players drafted ahead of Ian Happ in the 2015 draft with higher WAR than Ian Happ: Three. Two of which currently play for the Cubs. 

Combined 2023-2024 fWAR of the shortstops available in the 2022-2023 offseason:

1. Dansby Swanson - 9.2 fWAR (7 years, $177m, 2nd youngest of the four)
2. Trea Turner - 8.2 fWAR (11 years, $300m, 2nd oldest of the four)
3. Xander Bogaerts - 6.6 fWAR (11 years, $280m, oldest of the four)
4. Carlos Correa - 6.1 fWAR (6 years, $200m, youngest of the four)

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Jed (and we should all really be more critical of the end of Theo's time). These two are not it. 

lol, woosh. 

number of times Jed's teams have been in the playoffs (covid doesn't count): 0