Keener98

And Michigan finally gets a penalty called on them for the first time tonight...in the 4th quarter!!

PICKED!!!!!!!!!

Wow how do you miss the Mich lineman just holding onto the jersey? Seriously

Rashard Mendenhall is kinda good. Tie game Lets GO ILLINI!

While Im not arguing Torre is a great manager, its not his fault that the pitchers he has been given have been over the hill. They have put together a great offensive team, but Cashman has consisitently went out and got over the hill starting pitchers, or overrated injury risk starting pitchers(Pavano, Wright). That team the way it is comprised, the manager doesnt have to do much at all, except manage the bullpen. So while I dont think Torre is a great manager, I dont think the failures of the Yankees in the playoffs can be placed solely on him. When you talk bout being overrated, you need to look at brian Cashman before looking anywhere else. I agree with you to a certain extent. Torre is not the only one to blame for not winning a Championship the past 7 years. But many look at Torre's early years as a Yankee manager and give him much of the credit for 4 WS titles in 5 years. If he gets the credit for the championships, he's got to take his share of the blame for the lack of championships. I think LOTS of managers could have accomplished what Torre did in his 12 years if they were given his roster. I'll bet a guy like Bobby Cox would've even faired better than Torre. IMO, Cox made more with less talent. He unfortunately had his best teams when the Yankees were loaded like no one else. I don't think Torre is a bad manager. I just don't think he's one of the best ever. His record in St. Louis and Atlanta (though he was much younger/inexperienced as a manager) lend to that thought. IMO, he's the "Phil Jackson" of baseball. I'd be interested to see what he's able to do with a much less talented roster and a franchise willing to spend much less to replace a team's unproductive/aging/hurt peices. The thing is, when the Yankees won the 4 titles it was mainly all homegrown talent, and before the Yankees started spending like idiots. What could Cox have done differently in the playoffs then Torre? Its not Torres fault his pitching has sucked, and Arod has struggled in the playoffs. Not really sure how Cox would have changed that.

While Im not arguing Torre is a great manager, its not his fault that the pitchers he has been given have been over the hill. They have put together a great offensive team, but Cashman has consisitently went out and got over the hill starting pitchers, or overrated injury risk starting pitchers(Pavano, Wright). That team the way it is comprised, the manager doesnt have to do much at all, except manage the bullpen. So while I dont think Torre is a great manager, I dont think the failures of the Yankees in the playoffs can be placed solely on him. When you talk bout being overrated, you need to look at brian Cashman before looking anywhere else.

sucks and is going to get destroyed tonight. Yea ok, you might want to wake up and quit dreaming lol

I don't see how that's so crazy. New England hasn't scored below 34 points all year, and Miami's offense has been getting better Miami has scored less than 17 points only 1 time this year, and that was in week 1. It could easily be a 38-17 final. Miami also traded their number 1 receiver this week too. Miami will try running as much as possible to try and keep Brady off the field. Not to mention Brady has historically struggled at Miami.

I cant believe the o/u of the Miami-New England game is so high at 51.5. Thats absurd considering they are expecting NE to score the majority of those points. Ive got 50 bucks on the under, which seems about as safe as a bet as Ive ever placed.

ILL-

ESPN just said the Yanks have reached out to 3 people so far. Mattingly, Girardi, and Tony Pena.

Raisin, hes not leaving, he will be back to do Smokies games next year according to Muskat. http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071016&content_id=2269463&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Not if you take everything into account, its really not.

Im guessing it goes back to the team again. Maggs runs were more valuable to his team than Arods were to the Yankees, since the Yankees had a better offense around him. I think that is where Meph is making his argument for Maggs being the most Valuable. Alright. So this is kind of a...."I have a grading system and this is out it came out" thing. That's cool. Well its really a system of taking everything into account, instead of looking at 1 category like most of the voters will do. Meph is discussing the most valuable player, not necessarily the best player in the league. I hope Im describing this right, and not speaking wrongly for Meph.

Im guessing it goes back to the team again. Maggs runs were more valuable to his team than Arods were to the Yankees, since the Yankees had a better offense around him. I think that is where Meph is making his argument for Maggs being the most Valuable.

Supporting Theriot for what? Starter? Or starter over Cedeno, if given the choice between the two? I'm in the latter category. And no, I wasn't happy with Izturis. Why would anyone have been? Supporting Theriot as a starter, and saying he had a good year. Look at Izturis's numbers and look at Theriots they are identical. That is how bad Theriot was, he was on par with Cesar Izturis, but for some reason(see GRIT factor) people are saying Theriot had a good year, its really hard to believe. Identical? Theriot's OPS was 55 points higher than Cesar's. Hardly identical. And I don't know who is saying that Theriot had a good year. My whole thing all along has been that Theriot is more likely to give you better production than Cedeno next year. I haven't said that he had a good year. Theriot had over 200 more ab's than Izturis and his 55 point OPS advantage is basically from him hitting 6 hrs and Izturis hitting 0. Their average is basically identical, so is their OBP. So Theriot hits more hrs than Izturis and does everything else on par with Izturis, there is not much difference at all. Also Theriots numbers get a huge boost because of him OPS'ing over 900 1 month. That says alot right there. Even with him OPS'ing over 900 for a full month, and Izturis never breaking 790, they are still very close overall for a full season. They are both 28 years old. The comparison is very valid. And you must not have read this thread if you havent seen people saying Theriots had a good year. Theriot had 3 HR's, not 6. He also had more than twice as many doubles as Izturis did. But the bottom line is that his OPS was 55 points higher than Izturis's. I don't know why you're trying to overlook that or make it seem insignificant. And we apparently have differing definitions of the word identical. Because Theriot's average and OBP (along with SLG and OPS) were not identical to Izturis's. They were better. And your comment about Theriot being on par with Izturis in every category is flat out wrong. Theriot is better than Izturis in every category. Why are you trying to say otherwise? I said they are basically identical. Theriot had a 8 point advantage in batting average and a 20 point advantage in OBP. Not exactly the same, but nearly identical. Like I said it took a 900 OPS from Theriot in 1 month for him to even reach his sub par numbers. Theriot also had 200 more ab's than Izturis. Theriot at best is a very very slightly better offensive player than Izturis.

Supporting Theriot for what? Starter? Or starter over Cedeno, if given the choice between the two? I'm in the latter category. And no, I wasn't happy with Izturis. Why would anyone have been? Supporting Theriot as a starter, and saying he had a good year. Look at Izturis's numbers and look at Theriots they are identical. That is how bad Theriot was, he was on par with Cesar Izturis, but for some reason(see GRIT factor) people are saying Theriot had a good year, its really hard to believe. Identical? Theriot's OPS was 55 points higher than Cesar's. Hardly identical. And I don't know who is saying that Theriot had a good year. My whole thing all along has been that Theriot is more likely to give you better production than Cedeno next year. I haven't said that he had a good year. Theriot had over 200 more ab's than Izturis and his 55 point OPS advantage is basically from him hitting 6 hrs and Izturis hitting 0. Their average is basically identical, so is their OBP. So Theriot hits more hrs than Izturis and does everything else on par with Izturis, there is not much difference at all. Also Theriots numbers get a huge boost because of him OPS'ing over 900 1 month. That says alot right there. Even with him OPS'ing over 900 for a full month, and Izturis never breaking 790, they are still very close overall for a full season. They are both 28 years old. The comparison is very valid. And you must not have read this thread if you havent seen people saying Theriots had a good year.

Supporting Theriot for what? Starter? Or starter over Cedeno, if given the choice between the two? I'm in the latter category. And no, I wasn't happy with Izturis. Why would anyone have been? Supporting Theriot as a starter, and saying he had a good year. Look at Izturis's numbers and look at Theriots they are identical. That is how bad Theriot was, he was on par with Cesar Izturis, but for some reason(see GRIT factor) people are saying Theriot had a good year, its really hard to believe.

Based on what? And as long as teams keep trying to shut down Rice and making Rutgers QB beat them, opposing teams are going to have success against Rutgers. Based on Michigan playing like a top ten team the last five weeks. Against terrible teams, color me unimpressed.

Ive asked this question a couple times in this thread to the Theriot supporters, and Im still yet to get an answer. Were those of you who are supporting Theriot, happy with Cesar Izturis?

Those were the real Chicago Cubs. Are you sure they were real? They looked like cardboard cutouts while on offense.

Wow namecalling how enlightening.

Did you like Cesar Izturis also? Seriously all these people talking about how Theriot had a fine year at SS need to realize he had the same year as Izturis.

Where is the difference between Izturis and Theriot? Izturis had a better all around year, where Theriot had 1 astrnomical month with 5 below average months.

Isn't that exactly what happened this year. Cedeno's 2006 numbers were abysmal. Izturis would have been an upgrade. This year, Lou was looking for a player to step up and claim the SS position after Izturis failed to impress anyone. Instead of stepping up Cedeno tanked to start the season. Its not like Cedeno hasn't been given extended looks. Out of all of the options this year Theriot was the most productive. Which isnt sayin much