Then why did you talk about Illinois last year? Or Illinois football this year? because when illinois basketball is down, everyone notices. when iowa basketball is down and a pointless waste of time, the sky is blue. Over the last 3 years Iowa is one game better than Illinois in the Big Ten. We had a coaching move in the middle of that 3 years, Bruce has no such excuse. Except maybe that it can be a distraction to have players leave another teammate to die. What about the irrelevant Illinois football team this year? Why were they discussed? why just the past 3 years? but i guess a tourney appearance for the hawkeyes is considered a successful season, and that's just fine for a largley irrelevant program. you guys are doin great! you can go to the football thread to discuss illinois football if you'd like. i thought this was the basketball thread. but if you're asking me, illinois football was just about irrelevant enough to beat the hawkeyes. I was obviously cherry-picking the numbers to help state my case. But the fact remains that Illinois hasn't been relevant since Deron Williams left. No more relevant than Iowa. You don't want anyone to discuss irrelevant teams. Yet you continually discussed (well actually you just whined about officiating and how only you are doomed to root for teams with terrible luck) Illinois football. They were completely irrelevant this year and haven't been any more relevant historically than Iowa basketball. And if you want to go the head-to-head route, I wasn't bragging when Iowa beat Illinois in '07. We stunk, they went to the Rose Bowl. It didn't really mean much. they went 11-5 in the big ten the year after williams left and have made the tourney twice since his departure (i realize iowa also did this that year, but while it was a great year for iowa, it was a forgetable year for the illini). you see what i mean, if iowa would have made the tourney 2 years in a row it would be absolutely the biggest news in the world. what i mean by iowa being irrelevant (and we're talking basketball here, basketball, because, as you'll notice, this is a basketball thread. i have no idea why you brought up the issue of football, as my comments were not pertaining the irrelevance of iowa football or the relevance of illini football)is that they generally don't make the ncaa, they generally don't challenge for big ten titles, they've never been considered a top program at any time, and they have no real prospects of doing that in the future. you know, irrelevant as far as illini football, let's keep it on the football thread, but we DID beat you this year. seriously, if you want to have a discussion about football, make the first post in that thread, i'll be right there, i swear.