Warpticon

And by the end of the year, Carpenter will likely have 25 more innings than Clemens. Is 50 extra innings the standard for this debate? Again, you're making rules up as we go along. And now playoff contention is a decisive factor, too. OK, I'm glad we're getting these things cleared up. Yup. It's been stated pretty clear why Carp has won 6 more games. Just as it was stated pretty clearly last year why Randy Johnson didn't win as many games as Roger Clemens (because RJ was on a horrible team). It didn't seem to matter last year. Nobody wanted to give the award to Randy Johnson. Now that the tables are turned, everybody suddenly sees the light, and wants to give consideration to a guy who isn't getting the run support. Hypocritical. You see, this is what's ridiculous about most of your arguments in this thread. You don't even know who you're talking to. The thread is about who deserves the Cy Young award in 2005. Who deserved it last year is wholly irrelevant. On top of that, if you're going to call people hypocrites for supporting Clemens this year for different reasons than they supported him last year, wouldn't it be nice to...you know...KNOW THAT THEY ACTUALLY SUPPORTED CLEMENS FOR CY YOUNG LAST YEAR? Because, you know, we love to have our minds subsequently made up for us--it's so much easier than thinking for ourselves. Good Lord. If you're going to start labeling people based upon your own ignorance, than you have no business in any debate here. Shape up.

Oh, as for the constant mentioning of Cordero...think 100 innings might be a wee more significant a difference in sample size than 16 innings?

Why was it impossible for him to win those games? I showed examples where, if he had stuck around longer than his customery 7 innings, his team would have won the game for him. If he'd gut it out a few times for his team, instead of going all-out for 7 innings (to protect his precious ERA) and then hitting the showers, maybe he AND his team would have won a few more games. Wow, what a terrible argument. I'd hate to live in your world where pitching 7 shutout innings is a bad thing just because it's not 8 or 9 shutout innings. I also am amused by the idea that it's less selfish to stay deeper in games, potentially risking injury, in hopes of getting W's than it is to leave and give your teammates a chance to win the game for you when you're tired and don't have your best stuff anymore. And what's up with this circular arguing in which you claim Clemens doesn't deserve it this year becuase of the reasons he won it last year? Are you not paying attention to the fact that most of these people think Clemens didn't deserve it last year, either?

Forgot to mention; any top-5 all-around list sans Abreu is broken. Abreu > Beltran. Same feature set, but Abreu's better in avg and consistency.

I do regret not pointing out that I was black in my email to Scoop; it's entirely possible it was disregarded as the meritless rants of an unknowingly racist white man. Not that I expect he would have paid it any mind, anyway.

The only cases in which it appears to me that "long-time respecteds" tend to go harder on newcomers is when the newcomers in question initiate an argument that has been made numerous times on this forum. In those cases, it's not the newness that generates the hostility; it's the oldness.

I think his .282/.359/.539/.894 line is pretty decent at pretty much any spot on the field. Contract and fragility are legit reasons to balk at acquiring Griffey. Production...not so much.

I favor a return of Nomar, under a reduced make-good deal (like the current one, just with a much lower base) with Cedeno backing up 2B/SS. Cedeno could probably get a goot 20-30 starts plus PH and defensive substitution time, and we could get a better picture of what his capabilities are. If he can become a solid major league regular, we'll have a better assessment then. If he looks to be a career utility man, well, we'll have us a cheap utility man, and we won't have depended on him for everyday play.

Beltran deserves to be on the list. It is absurd not to have A-Rod, who is great defensively at two positions, one of the top 5-7 hitters in the game for average and for power, and fast enough and skilled enough to be an very good base stealer at the same time. I have a hard time putting anybody above him, really, yet he's not on the list. Ridiculous.

and #2 in all of baseball, behind Varitek.

Capoeira.

This is clearly just a birthday present, as Corey turns 26 this Saturday.

So, I've got him at .297/.360/.505 right now.

Wow, Joe. "I think he should have run forward more, they have to know who's running." Run forward, Joe, as opposed to...you know...TO THE BALL?

I emailed him this:

That certainly explains his lack of 50-60 HRs the past two years when there was no testing.

Yep, I need to work up that article on the value of strikeouts.

Is it okay for me to quit my job and call you all jackasses?

When did Barajas start pitching?

I don't care about people's hatred or something. I grew up on WGN, liked Sandberg, Dawson, and Maddux, then Sosa, and became a Cub fan. WGN also showed Sox games, and Sosa played for them, as did Thomas, so I kinda liked the Sox. Nothing has really changed since then, except that I like baseball in general a lot more.

Man, that'd be an AWFUL defensive outfield. Murton has a left fielder's arm. Burnitz is the good fielder of the bunch, but he's at his best in right. Manny...well.

NO Really? That's not that horrible a deal now that I think about it. I didn't think so, either, but after a moment of consideration... If you, as I do, think that our Ramirez is at or nearing the caliber of hitter that their Ramirez is, then essentially you end up trading about 10 million a year for Kevin Youkilis in that deal. That's...not so appealing.

There's your Aramis hustle.

Isolated power: SLG-AVG Here we go with another obscure stat. The guy is hitting over .400 and we're worried about is ISOP. Assuming Nomar comes back with some power, we have at least average or better power at 1B, 2B (for the position), SS (for the position), 3B, RF, & C. The last time I looked, the WSox were running away with their Division without a power-hitting LF. I guess I'm too old to get excited about all of these new statistics. Give me the good old days when a guy hitting .400 should be playing. Instead, everyone wets their pants over a guy hitting .240 with 8 million strikeouts and thinks we ought to trade half our farm system for him. I don't disagree with Murton playing, but you don't seriously think he's going to hit .400 over the long run, do you? There's a difference between using stats for projection purposes (as they were used here) and deciding who should play today or who has performed the best. Since it's unlikely that Murton hits .455 for the rest of his career, people are trying to figure out what they should expect from him. i don't see why this bothers you so much.

Also, for Harvey. Especially for Harvey, really. His power is prodigous, but his strikeout rate is frightful, and he doesn't walk much, either.